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Starter quest world

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Starter quest world

Postby Seravy » 27 Aug 2017, 12:28

Now that the forum is back online, I'll post this here too.

Starter.txt
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This is a quest world built from all starter level sets : Starter, Portal, Portal 2 and Portal 3 Kingdoms.

Includes 30 duels and 15 challenges, all fully tested.
Unless someone has a better idea for the world name, this is what I used for the definition :

Name:The Gates of Magic|Dir:Starter|Sets:POR, PO2, S99, S00, PTK

There is one additional challenge in a subfolder named "bad" - the AI is currently unable to play the card included. Once that gets fixed, that challenge can also be added safely.

The power level of the world does leave a bit to be desired (much like the Urza world which is full of combo enablers the AI can't play or would need cards from outside the world) so there are more easy but fewer hard/very hard opponents.

Future plans are :
Tempest world - I already have duel opponents but the core cards of the sets are AI unplayable so I can't progress on this world until the Git migration is complete and I can start improving AI. Cards like Cursed Scroll are just too important for this block.
Invasion world - Haven't started yet but this might be the next one. Probably won't have problems here, the block mechanics are more AI friendly than Tempest and Urza were, and cards are strong and diverse enough to build many good decks.
Mercadian world - Honestly not sure about this one, the cards in the block are kinda weak so it might be hard to have enough interesting duels to do it. Might work better if paired with another block for a larger cardpool, idk. But this is a really far future plan...
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Re: Starter quest world

Postby Agetian » 27 Aug 2017, 12:40

Which cards in the Tempest block do you need AI support for? And do you have any specific suggestions for what the AI should do with those cards? (Maybe I'll take a look at some AI improvements for that too, no promises since my vacation will be over next week, but if I can pencil that into my schedule, I'll see what I can do ;))

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Re: Starter quest world

Postby Seravy » 27 Aug 2017, 14:30

Let me take a quick look at tempest decks then...

Cursed Scroll (many decks) - This is the most important one. The AI should activate this when holding exactly 1 card in hand (even if that means during upkeep before drawing or something like that) or, nonzero cards at end of opponent's turn if there is nothing else to spend untapped mana on. "chosen card name" should be the name of the card the AI has most copies of in hand.

Null Brooch - AI should activate this if number of cards in hand is 0 or 1, OR if the AI already has Ensnaring Brige in play. In all other cases, it's better if it doesn't use it.

Bottomless Pit - Should have lower play priority than Ensnaring Bridge - otherwise you risk discarding it and the whole point is to make that work better as it empties the hand. (Yes, I know there is no priority system yet. It needs to be implemented first.)

Dungeon Shade - AI should not play the card drawn in hand when this is in play with Ensnaring Bridge, instead it should attack (while the 1 card is in hand), pump the creature and then play the card. (in general, AI should never pump this until after blockers are declared - I've seen the AI pump Vampire Bats and such in the main phase before attacking.)

Sudden Impact - Marked AI unplayable, not sure why, but ideally the AI should play this during the draw step of the opponent after drawing as early as possible (holding back other plays)

Buyback - don't know if the AI has correct logic for using these, especially with Memory Crystal and Medallions (those are all marked ?). Also, the game doesn't announce the AI used or not used buyback when playing spells, the player has to guess from the number of tapped lands.

Carrionette - is marked AI unplayable. Ideally AI should use it only if the target can't pay 2 and discard/sac as cost if able.

Hermit Druid - marked "?", AI should use it always, unless library size<20 cards.

Volrath's Stronghold - is marked AI unplayable. Ideally, activate it if no cards to play in hand exists (so drawing a creature is better than risking to draw a land) and nothing else can be done with the mana at end of turn. (prioritize using the Cursed Scroll if both are possible.

Commander Greven Il Vec - play when there is a creature to sacrifice and it's weaker than, say, 4/4?

Mogg Raider - Sac blocked creatures if unblocked creatures can kill the player if pumped. Otherwise, sac blocked creatures that can't kill the blocker to enable others to do so or deal more damage to the player.

Helm of Possession - The AI should not untap this if it's controlling a creature. The AI should aim to sacrifice the creature it is holding if possible - ideally to a second copy of the Helm.

Spirit Mirror - the created token should be used for "sacrifice a creature" effects. The token should be destroyed if enchanted by the enemy or targeted by an enemy buyback spell. Any enemy "Reflection" creatures should also be destroyed at all time - even if they are not the token.

Skyshroud Elf - use if a spell that needs to colored mana is being played.

Jakalope Herd - play if Pandemonium is in play or there is nothing else the AI could play from its hand.

Segmented Wurm - why is this marked unplayable? It's just a 5/5 for 5. I'm guessing it's safe if the deck has nothing that would make the AI target it?

Maniacal Rage - marked AI unplayable currently. It's in an aggro deck so I guess the AI should always use it? If it's trying to block it's already losing...(but avoid in drafts and random decks)

Spike Rogue - no idea why this is unplayable but I guess I can leave it out of the spike deck if there is a reason.

Survival of the Fittest - pretty sure I've seen decks built around this, not sure why it's marked unplayable.

Recurring Nightmare - sac weak creatures or anything marked as sacrifice fodder to get back stronger ones. (I suppose, higher casting cost works for this)

Living Death - calculate AIGain+EnemyLoss-AIloss-EnemyGain in creature value similarly to WoG effects, but the threshold should be much higher for playing the card, something around at least a 4/4 creature worth of advantage total?

Erratic Portal - target any own "when enters battlefield, do X" creatures where X is a beneficial effect, prioritizing the lowest cost. Also target any OTHER enemy creature if they can't pay the 1, prioritizing the highest cost.

Furnance Brood - why is this marked unplayable? It's just a 3/3 for 4. It's fine if the AI isn't using the ability at all.

That's all already in decks and marked unplayable or "?".

Cards that aren't in decks but could most likely be : En-Kor with Angelic Protector and Worthy Cause for an infinite lifegain combo

Earthcraft - not sure if any good combo for this exists within the block? Squirrel Nest is outside.

Hatred - if unblocked creature can win the game, use X enough to do so. Could be a nice addition to the Dauthi deck.

Necrologia - Draw so hand size becomes 7, play if hand below 3? Not sure which deck to use it in though but I could probably come up with something.

Knight of Dawn - good weenie creature but marked unplayable.
En Kor creatures - should redirect all damage to targets with appropriate protection or those with enough toughness not to die. Especially with the above Knights of Dawn, would be a nice deck.

Soltari Guerillas - would be nice if it worked, to make a red-white shadow/direct damage deck

Dregs of Sorrow - also marked unplayable, might be decent as a 1-of in a black control with Necrologia

Reins of Power - attack, then sac all the stolen creatures to anything that allows doing so. Not sure if I can build a deck around this but would be nice. With Altar of Dementia perhaps? or as a challenge so more than 4 copies can be used.

Pursuit of Knowledge - it should always skip draws and always sac to draw I guess.

Puppet Strings - use the tap effect before combat to untap own tapped, or tap enemy untapped creatures.

Flickering Ward - amazing card for white creature decks. Just pick the color the enemy plays most cards of, and return to hand if the spell or enchanted creature is about to die.

Mox diamond - always play if able and have land to discard? Guess same problem as the portal Wyrm the AI can't hold lands to do so? I guess this one isn't very important as it's card disadvantage, but I could see it working in some decks (slivers especially but also anything that draws extra cards in larger quantity)

Mind Over Matter, Intruder Alarm - was there a block only deck for these? Idk, will need to think about that.

Reflecting Pool - pretty useful mana source but auto-tapping still uses this to produce wrong color so I guess it's not going to work for AI until that is fixed.

Note that I haven't tested the decks yet, I'm basing this list entirely on what is marked AI unplayable in the editor.

Oh and I suspect the AI doesn't recognize Shadow as an evasion ability - when at low life, it tends to not attack and keep blockers against my Shadow creatures even though those can't block them.
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Re: Starter quest world

Postby friarsol » 27 Aug 2017, 15:38

The ? doesnt mean its not playable, just that it shouldn't be added to a random deck. Some cards like Survival are perfectly fine when the whole deck is built around wanting to discard creatures
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Re: Starter quest world

Postby Agetian » 27 Aug 2017, 15:46

Alrighty, I'll try to write the Cursed Scroll AI for starters when I have an opportunity :) As for the list you provided:

Segmented Wurm, Maniacal Rage, Furnace Brood, Hermit Druid - should be OK as they are.
Spike Rogue - you can try it; there was some logic written relatively recently by Hanmac for "remove counters to do <...>", so maybe it's already playable (not sure, haven't tried it in AI's hands in a while).
Survival of the Fittest - yeah, the AI is just not super well versed in when exactly to do it, but as long as you have a deck specifically built for this effect, should be fine.
Living Death - already AI playable, but can be tweaked for a higher threshold. You can experiment with various additional threshold values in SpecialCardAi.LivingDeath.consider(...), let me know if you find an acceptable value ;)

Pretty much anything marked with "?" (RemRandomDeck) - yep, like Friarsol said, should work for the AI, provided that the deck is specifically built with this card's effect in mind.

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Re: Starter quest world

Postby Seravy » 27 Aug 2017, 23:40

Ok, thanks, sounds like it's actually better than it looked like on the deckbuilding screen then.

Cursed Scroll, Erratic Portal, Helm of Possession and Necrologia are probably the cards that enable the most potential new decks to be created in this block.
The Null Brooch might be better than I give credit for as well - as it, Ensnaring Bridge and Cursed Scroll all work well together and all are colorless. So if I had to name the 5 most important cards, it'd probably be those.

(also, deck ideas are welcome too, I might be overlooking cards. There is so much good stuff in this block!)
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Re: Starter quest world

Postby Agetian » 28 Aug 2017, 04:00

Yep :)
Btw, Cursed Scroll is now AI-playable.
Will take a look at those other priority cards you mentioned soon ;)

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Re: Starter quest world

Postby Seravy » 29 Aug 2017, 13:32

Oh, regarding Living Death, while this is not essential, it would be great if the AI could sacrifice all of its creatures to any sac ability it has in reaction to the spell being on stack - to ensure everything that would die comes back instead. (or in a more generic way, do it whenever a spell that would kill a creature is on the stack, or it is about to receive lethal combat damage without killing anything)
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Re: Starter quest world

Postby Agetian » 29 Aug 2017, 14:23

Ah, that sounds pretty cool :) I'll think how this can be accomplished :)
It should be done to any non-token creature, I believe.

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Re: Starter quest world

Postby Agetian » 31 Aug 2017, 12:43

Erratic Portal and Null Brooch are now AI-playable.
Helm of Possession appears to already be AI-playable, I ran some tests and the AI was able to use it. Not sure if more or less optimally, but it looked sane enough.
I'll take a look at Necrologia tonight or tomorrow.

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Re: Starter quest world

Postby Seravy » 31 Aug 2017, 16:04

Thanks! Meanwhile I started testing some of the Tempest decks, as I expect to run into more problems than in previous worlds and it's a more appropriate place for this discussion anyway, I've made a thread for it, here :
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=21058
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Re: Starter quest world

Postby daitokujibiko » 17 Sep 2017, 14:07

I'm impressed by your ability to make so many freakin' challenges. I only came up with 4 myself after 36 regular decks.
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