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moomarc wrote:A quick general question: With delayed triggers should the either the initial trigger or delayed trigger be static so that it can't be Stifle -ed or should you be able to counter both triggers?

Both triggers can be stifled.

moomarc wrote:Part of the reason I want to know is that I've scripted Teferi's Veil. Only issue is that your attacking creatures phase out one at a time instead of all simultaneously (which isn't a problem if the delayed trigger is static). Should I commit like this or wait for PhasesAll to be implemented?

Commit it, because that is exactly what should be happening.

. Earwig Squad

This card works fine except the exile ability operates whether or not the prowl cost was paid. I tried using Activation$ ProwlGoblin and Activation$ Prowl under both the trigger and the SVar:TrigProwl but neither helped. Any thoughts?

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Name:Earwig Squad
ManaCost:3 B B
Types:Creature Goblin Rogue
Text:no text
PT:5/3
SVar:AltCost:Cost$ 2 B | Activation$ ProwlGoblin | Description$ Prowl 2 B (You may cast this for its prowl cost if you dealt combat damage to a player this turn with a Goblin or Rogue.)
T:Mode$ ChangesZone | Origin$ Any | Destination$ Battlefield | ValidCard$ Card.Self | Execute$ TrigProwl | TriggerDescription$ When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, if its prowl cost was paid, search target opponent's library for three cards and exile them.  Then that player shuffled his or her libray.
SVar:TrigProwl:AB$ ChangeZone | Activation$ ProwlGoblin | Cost$ 0 | Origin$ Library | Destination$ Exile | ValidTgts$ Opponent | ChangeType$ Card | ChangeNum$ 3 | IsCurse$ True | Chooser$ You | Shuffle$ True
SVar:Rarity:Rare
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/earwig_squad.jpg
End

Using Furnace Dragon as a template, I've scripted 4 cards that have the "if you played it from your hand," ability.

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Name:Coal Stoker
ManaCost:3 R
Types:Creature Elemental
Text:no text
PT:3/3
T:Mode$ ChangesZone | Origin$ Stack | Destination$ Battlefield | ValidCard$ Card.Self | Execute$ TrigMana | TriggerDescription$ When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, add RRR to your mana pool.
SVar:TrigMana:AB$Mana | Cost$ 0 | Produced$ R | Amount$ 3
SVar:RemRandomDeck:True
SVar:RemAIDeck:True
SVar:Rarity:Common
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/coal_stoker.jpg
SetInfo:TSP|Common|http://magiccards.info/scans/ts/en/150.jpg
Oracle:When Coal Stoker enters the battlefield, if you cast it from your hand, add {R}{R}{R} to your mana pool.
End


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Name:Dread Cacodemon
ManaCost:7 B B B
Types:Creature Demon
Text:no text
PT:8/8
T:Mode$ ChangesZone | ValidCard$ Card.Self | Origin$ Stack | Destination$ Battlefield | Execute$ TrigDestroy | TriggerDescription$ When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, if you cast it from your hand, destroy all creatures your opponents control, then tap all other creatures you control.
SVar:TrigDestroy:AB$ DestroyAll | Cost$ 0 | ValidCards$ Creature.YouDontCtrl | SubAbility$ ABTapAll
SVar:ABTapAll:AB$TapAll | Cost$ 0 | ValidCards$ Creature.YouCtrl.Other
SVar:RemAIDeck:True
SVar:Rarity:Rare
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/dread_cacodemon.jpg
SetInfo:CMD|Rare|http://magiccards.info/scans/cmd/en/79.jpg
Oracle:When Dread Cacodemon enters the battlefield, if you cast it from your hand, destroy all creatures your opponents control, then tap all other creatures you control.
End


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Name:Reiver Demon
ManaCost:4 B B B B
Types:Creature Demon
Text:no text
PT:6/6
K:Flying
T:Mode$ ChangesZone | ValidCard$ Card.Self | Origin$ Stack | Destination$ Battlefield | Execute$ TrigDestroyAll | TriggerDescription$ When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, if you cast it from your hand, destroy all nonartifact, nonblack creatures. They can’t be regenerated.
SVar:TrigDestroyAll:AB$DestroyAll | Cost$ 0 | ValidCards$ Creature.nonArtifact+nonBlack | NoRegen$ True
SVar:RemAIDeck:True
SVar:Rarity:Rare
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/reiver_demon.jpg
SetInfo:CMD|Rare|http://magiccards.info/scans/cmd/en/95.jpg
Oracle:Flying\nWhen Reiver Demon enters the battlefield, if you cast it from your hand, destroy all nonartifact, nonblack creatures. They can’t be regenerated.
End


However, the 4th card, Hypnox, using Wormfang Behemoth as a template, may or may not work, as I couldn't find a card that exiles cards from opponent's hand. I used "Origin$ Hand.Opponent" and "Destination$ Hand.Opponent", but I have no clue if these are supported.

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Name:Hypnox
ManaCost:8 B B B
Types:Creature Nightmare Horror
Text:no text
PT:8/8
K:Flying
T:Mode$ ChangesZone | ValidCard$ Card.Self | Origin$ Stack | Destination$ Battlefield | Execute$ TrigExile | TriggerDescription$ When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, if you cast it from your hand, exile all cards from target opponent’s hand.
SVar:TrigExile:AB$ChangeZoneAll | Cost$ 0 | ChangeType$ Card | Origin$ Hand.Opponent | Destination$ Exile | RememberTargets$ True | ForgetOtherTargets$ True
T:Mode$ ChangesZone | ValidCard$ Card.Self | Origin$ Battlefield | Destination$ Any | Execute$ TrigReturn | TriggerDescription$ When CARDNAME leaves the battlefield, return the exiled cards to their owner's hand.
SVar:TrigReturn:AB$ChangeZoneAll | Cost$ 0 | ChangeType$ Card | Origin$ Exile | Destination$ Hand.Opponent | Defined$ Remembered
SVar:RemAIDeck:True
SVar:Rarity:Rare
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/hypnox.jpg
SetInfo:TOR|Rare|http://magiccards.info/scans/tr/en/64.jpg
Oracle:Flying\nWhen Hypnox enters the battlefield, if you cast it from your hand, exile all cards from target opponent’s hand.\nWhen Hypnox leaves the battlefield, return the exiled cards to their owner’s hand.
End


@squee1968: Those cards look good. Thanks. In Dread Cacodemon though the ABTapAll Svar restriction should be Creature.YouCtrl+Other (each restriction after ther first gets a "+" instead of ".")

For the last card there's a few tips to remember. When using changeZone etc the ValidCards field will define which player's hand or graveyard the cards move from. So in this case you'd simply use Origin$ Hand | ChangeType$ Card.YouDontCtrl and same for Destination on the second trigger. This is because you can never have a card that you control in your opponent's hand or graveyard and visa versa.

Also with this script you'd use RememberChanged, not RememberTargets. I'm guessing that was copied from a ChangeZone script instead of ChangeZoneAll.

Hope those help. I'll go through them more thoroughly tomorrow morning and test and commit (if no-one else has yet).

moomarc wrote:@squee1968: Those cards look good. Thanks. In Dread Cacodemon though the ABTapAll Svar restriction should be Creature.YouCtrl+Other (each restriction after ther first gets a "+" instead of ".")

For the last card there's a few tips to remember. When using changeZone etc the ValidCards field will define which player's hand or graveyard the cards move from. So in this case you'd simply use Origin$ Hand | ChangeType$ Card.YouDontCtrl and same for Destination on the second trigger. This is because you can never have a card that you control in your opponent's hand or graveyard and visa versa.

Also with this script you'd use RememberChanged, not RememberTargets. I'm guessing that was copied from a ChangeZone script instead of ChangeZoneAll.

Hope those help. I'll go through them more thoroughly tomorrow morning and test and commit (if no-one else has yet).

Thanks alot for the tips, I'll try to keep them in mind for the future. My script for Hypnox was copied almost completely from Wormfang Behemoth, so I assumed it was correct. I'm sort of understanding the difference, but not completely.

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Name:Wormfang Behemoth
ManaCost:3 U U
Types:Creature Nightmare Fish Beast
Text:no text
PT:5/5
T:Mode$ ChangesZone | ValidCard$ Card.Self | Origin$ Any | Destination$ Battlefield | Execute$ TrigExile | TriggerDescription$ When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, exile all cards from your hand.
SVar:TrigExile:AB$ChangeZoneAll | Cost$ 0 | ChangeType$ Card | Origin$ Hand | Destination$ Exile | RememberTargets$ True | ForgetOtherTargets$ True
T:Mode$ ChangesZone | ValidCard$ Card.Self | Origin$ Battlefield | Destination$ Any | Execute$ TrigReturn | TriggerDescription$ When CARDNAME leaves the battlefield, return the exiled cards to their owner's hand.
SVar:TrigReturn:AB$ChangeZoneAll | Cost$ 0 | ChangeType$ Card | Origin$ Exile | Destination$ Hand | Defined$ Remembered
SVar:RemAIDeck:True
SVar:Rarity:Rare
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/wormfang_behemoth.jpg
SetInfo:JUD|Rare|http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ju/55.jpg
Oracle:When Wormfang Behemoth enters the battlefield, exile all cards from your hand.\nWhen Wormfang Behemoth leaves the battlefield, return the exiled cards to their owner's hand.
End


squee1968 wrote:Using Furnace Dragon as a template, I've scripted 4 cards that have the "if you played it from your hand," ability.

Even though i think it's ok to add them, i want to point out that the script is not 100% correct. The trigger will trigger even when the creature was cast from the graveyard or the exile zone. I will try to add these checks later.

I was going to post the cards Squee1968 posted with a few minor fixes but in testing has pointed out a few other problems.

Firstly, it turns out that the "if CARDNAME was cast from your hand" bit was never implemented in Furnace Dragon in the first place so none of these implement it either. I remember avoiding these cards in the first place because I couldn't see how the trigger was limiting it just by having the stack as origin seeing that all card end up on the stack when cast from anywhere. So I haven't added any of these yet (however, I did fix up the Remember on Wormfang Behemoth, so thanks for pointing it out, Squee)

Secondly, there proved to be some errors in the cards I was using to test the situation (the only card that helped successfully test was Temporal Aperture):
- Jhoira of the Ghitu is exiling the card from your hand without giving it suspend
- When I used Horde of Notions to try cast Coal Stoker I just got a crash, but I think I recall there being other reports of this when using HoN's ability.

EDIT: I haven't tested Furnace Dragon itself, just the cards templated from it, but I don't see any hardcoded bits or script that would make it any different.

Sloth wrote:

squee1968 wrote:Using Furnace Dragon as a template, I've scripted 4 cards that have the "if you played it from your hand," ability.

Even though i think it's ok to add them, i want to point out that the script is not 100% correct. The trigger will trigger even when the creature was cast from the graveyard or the exile zone. I will try to add these checks later.

Just saw this now, so before you set to work on hardcoding the checks just see if you're happy with the pseudo check I scripted for them.

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T:Mode$ ChangesZone | ValidCard$ Card.Self | Origin$ Hand | Destination$ Stack | Static$ True | DelayedTrigger$ CastFromHand
SVar:CastFromHand:Mode$ ChangesZone | ValidCard$ Card.Self | Origin$ Stack | Destination$ Battlefield...etc

Basically the main ETB trigger is relegated to a delayed trigger created by the card changing zones from hand to stack, then the previous script takes over. Only issue is that no trigger fires if cast from somewhere aside from your hand (not sure if that is even a problem or expected behaviour)

So should I commit them with this solution (I've tested with the previous sertup I used and they work as expected), or should I commit the base script and let you code the cast from hand check?

I don't think the lack of a trigger going off if the card is cast from somewhere other than the hand is a problem, since "if you cast it from your hand" is an intervening if that, if not satisfied, does indeed cause the trigger to never go off.

Hellfish wrote:I don't think the lack of a trigger going off if the card is cast from somewhere other than the hand is a problem, since "if you cast it from your hand" is an intervening if that, if not satisfied, does indeed cause the trigger to never go off.

Thanks Hellfish. Can you see any other potential issues with my solution? I'm not clued up on the workings of delayed triggers so I might have missed some corner cases. Maybe the spell being countered then returning to the battlefield at a later stage? If anyone can see a problem or has a particular situation I should test let me know. Otherwise I'll commit them with this later today.

Edit: Tested that particular scenario and definitely not a problem.

Does the trigger still happen if you start casting it, and then cancel out?

Is Consuming Vapors scriptable? I've tried a few way of scripting it using Tribute to Hunger as a template, but nothing seems to work right. Are rebound cards just not scriptable at his point?

SoulStorm wrote:Is Consuming Vapors scriptable? I've tried a few way of scripting it using Tribute to Hunger as a template, but nothing seems to work right. Are rebound cards just not scriptable at his point?

As a keyword, rebound isn't available for scripting yet. I was going to try some with the method I used above if the other devs were happy with the method, but I don't know if we can do the "as it resolves" part.

friarsol wrote:Does the trigger still happen if you start casting it, and then cancel out?

I just tried and it doesn't cause any issues that I can see. In the test I select Dread Cacodemon and pay part of its cost then cancel. Then I use Elvish Piper to put him on the battlefield and the trigger is correctly suppressed (although that might be because it bypasses the stack when using the Piper? I can't think of any card that would put it on the stack first before it enters play, but if anyone can, please let me know. That would probably be the shortfall of this method). I think the hand->stack trigger being static bypasses most issues.

I think I'll post them for now because either way its a step closer than they were, then you can test further scenarios you might think of.

moomarc wrote:

SoulStorm wrote:Is Consuming Vapors scriptable? I've tried a few way of scripting it using Tribute to Hunger as a template, but nothing seems to work right. Are rebound cards just not scriptable at his point?

As a keyword, rebound isn't available for scripting yet. I was going to try some with the method I used above if the other devs were happy with the method, but I don't know if we can do the "as it resolves" part.

Thanks for the data. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.