Balancing the Plant 'pet'

[moomarc]

While considering the scripts for max's work on the quest pets, I was struck by an idea.

The plant wall is generally considered a bit overpowered, so I've had a few ideas. Firstly, the nursery is just too sparse to begin with, so I figured that early in the quest it could be populated by a variety of other plants that grow from a vanilla 0/1 defender to a 0/2 defender with a basic ability over 2 upgrades. I imagine their abilities with a cost of tap<1/card.self> tap<1/creature.other> indicating another creature using part of the plant to prepare a ritual or something. Later in the game you would be able to purchase the current plant pet as I think its almost crucial against some later challenges.

My other idea is to create the sense of having to maintain the plants. Initially I thought that every X matches you would have to buy plant food or something otherwise the plant would downgrade, but that would have to be hardcoded and I want to avoid that. So I thought another solution that would work flavorwise is to have a system similar to levellers. The plant would start each game as a 0/1 defender, then at the beginning of each upkeep you put a growth counter on it. Then the abilities would be scripted as for levellers. This would mean that the final iteration of the plant (each would still be individual scripts with different level caps) would only be a 1/4 life-gaining-deathtouching-killir on turn 4 which seems far more fair. No more relying on that alone while you get your combo pieces out.

The two ideas could also be combined obviously.

Sorry about the massive post but let me know your thoughts on the matter. I'll throw a script together in the morning to better illustrate it.

[moomarc]

Sorry, there's more... The nursery could sell fertilizer or quiki-grow or whatever, then if you have a pack when you start the game, either the plant starts with the max counters on already.or starts as an effect card in play with 'tap: put 2 growth counters on a plant you control'.

Another interaction with growth counters would be using them for plant abilities. The current plant could for instance have a 'T subCounter<3/GROWTH>' cost. Players would then have to plan strategies a bit better as the plant might downlevel after using an ability. Even the deathtouch could be activated instead of intrinsic making players play smarter.

[friarsol]

As part of my balancing of pets, the Plant Wall was planned to be replaced with a colorless Stone Wall.

Types: Wall Construct - Levels: 0/1, 0/2, 0/3, 1/3, 1/3 Wither, 1/4 Wither Trigger: During your upkeep, you may tap ~. If you do, gain 1 life.

[Max mtg]

It's ok to have a variety of plants with different triggers to choose from. I totally support the idea.
This will be a Planeswalker plant with a 'T subCounter<3/GROWTH>' cost but I still like it =)

As an idea to maintain the plant, I suggest add a manacost to be paid on upkeep to keep the plant alive.

I also support the idea to make plant a leveller creature (as are many from ROE). In bazaar you pay for increasing level cap or starting condition, and while in game you have to pour some mana into the plant for the latter to become most useful.

Custom effect consumable cards to be purchased in bazaar are a brilliant idea, but they not implemented yet

[moomarc]

Here's a first sample. I've just used the final plant wall as the base and renamed it to catch the flavor of what it does better (open to better suggestions). Each level also adds its flavor text via the AddKeywords (in addition to actual pumped keywords). Every turn it gets a nourishment counter which effectively levels it up by one, but the growth can be accelerated by paying one mana. So with no chenanigans or mana ramp it could go something like this:
Turn 1: 0/1 defender (starts on battlefield). Play land. Pump plant to 0/2 (not terrible 1-drop)
Turn 2: upkeep trigger pumps it to 0/3. Play land. Play cmc1 from hand and pump plant to 1/3.
Turn 3: Upkeep gives it deathtouch so from here on it's pretty much play as normal.
Turn 4: Assuming you didn't pump the plant last turn, the upkeep gives it the lifegain ability.

Plant level 6 | Open

Name:Tangleroot Plant
ManaCost:no cost
Colors:green
Types:Creature Plant Wall
Text:Level 6 Plant Wall
PT:1/4
K:Defender
S:Mode$ Continuous | Affected$ Card.Self | CharacteristicDefining$ True | SetPower$ 0 | SetToughness$ 1 | CheckSVar$ GrowthStatus | SVarCompare$ EQ0 | AddKeyword$ Your plant needs to settle and mature in this new environment. It's no more than a passing distraction to the denizens of this realm at the moment. CARDNAME grows at the beginning of each of your turns automatically.
S:Mode$ Continuous | Affected$ Card.Self | CharacteristicDefining$ True | SetPower$ 0 | SetToughness$ 2 | CheckSVar$ GrowthStatus | SVarCompare$ EQ1 | AddKeyword$ Your plant needs more time to settle and mature in this new environment and will still fall to most attackers. CARDNAME grows at the beginning of each of your turns automatically.
S:Mode$ Continuous | Affected$ Card.Self | CharacteristicDefining$ True | SetPower$ 0 | SetToughness$ 3 | CheckSVar$ GrowthStatus | SVarCompare$ EQ2 | AddKeyword$ Your plant has established itself in its surroundings and will protect you from many would-be attackers. CARDNAME grows at the beginning of each of your turns automatically.
S:Mode$ Continuous | Affected$ Card.Self | CharacteristicDefining$ True | SetPower$ 1 | SetToughness$ 3 | CheckSVar$ GrowthStatus | SVarCompare$ EQ3 | AddKeyword$ Your plant has grown well and small thorns have started to protrude from the stem. Even the leaves seem more dangerous somehow. CARDNAME grows at the beginning of each of your turns automatically.
S:Mode$ Continuous | Affected$ Card.Self | CharacteristicDefining$ True | SetPower$ 1 | SetToughness$ 3 | CheckSVar$ GrowthStatus | SVarCompare$ EQ4 | AddKeyword$ Deathtouch & Your plant's thorns have turned a vivid red indicating its mature status and is now deadly to all but the most resistant enemies. CARDNAME grows at the beginning of each of your turns automatically.
S:Mode$ Continuous | Affected$ Card.Self | CharacteristicDefining$ True | SetPower$ 1 | SetToughness$ 4 | AddAbility$ TanglerootNectar | CheckSVar$ GrowthStatus | SVarCompare$ GE5 | AddKeyword$ Deathtouch & Amid the deadly thorns, a golden nectar glistens on the stem which strengthens the stem, and when ingested has restorative qualities. But will need to be replenished and may weaken your plant if used too soon. (Maximum growth achieved)
T:Mode$ Phase | Phase$ Upkeep | ValidPlayer$ You | TriggerZones$ Battlefield | Execute$ PlantGrowth | Static$ True
SVar:PlantGrowth:AB$PutCounter | Cost$ 0 | Defined$ Self | CounterType$ NOURISHMENT | CounterNum$ 1
A:AB$PutCounter | Cost$ X | Defined$ Self | CounterType$ NOURISHMENT | CounterNum$ Grow | SpellDescription$ Help CARDNAME establish its roots faster (put X Nourishment counters on it)
SVar:TanglerootNectar:AB$ GainLife | Cost$ T SubCounter<X/NOURISHMENT> | LifeAmount$ Y | SpellDescription$ You gain life equal to half the counters removed, rounded down.
SVar:Grow:Count$xPaid
SVar:X:XChoice
SVar:Y:SVar$ChosenX/HalfDown
SVar:GrowthStatus:Count$CardCounters.NOURISHMENT
SetInfo:QST|Rare|http://www.dummy.com/dummy.jpg
End

Works out quite well I think and creates a bit more depth to your strategy. Try it out. You'll need to play it with something like Elvish Piper (or your Trained Kraj if you've trained it further )

[Sloth]

Whatever you do with the plant, please remove Deathtouch from it. The AI is very afraid to trade with a defender so all agressive strategies fail against the plant.

Please replace it with Wither or whatever, but no Deathtouch.

[moomarc]

Will definitely do so. This was just to get something solid up that you guys could look at to better decide if it would work. Like I've said before, I'm not a big quester, so its difficult for me to say whether its perhaps too slow. I do like the added interaction though.

I had a similar method in mind for the other pets if the initial idea went well, and at the same time it's quite different. The other pets would come into play with full stats and 3 nourishment counters. At the end of your turn, if it doesn't have haste, remove a counter. When there's only 1 counter left it will be pumped with a keyword description saying that your pet is hungry and needs to eat. When there's no counters left the creature will either become a 0/1 creature or something similar. Whenever a pet attacks or blocks you would put either 2 or 3 nourishment counters on it. I still need to work out the best balance for these though, but nevertheless, it makes the pets feel more alive.higher level pets would also start with more counters and get more through combat to indicate their expirience and battle-hardiness beyond the base stats. This could help balance the pets even better as things like the croc could go for longer without hunting.

[friarsol]

Will definitely do so. This was just to get something solid up that you guys could look at to better decide if it would work. Like I've said before, I'm not a big quester, so its difficult for me to say whether its perhaps too slow. I do like the added interaction though.

I had a similar method in mind for the other pets if the initial idea went well, and at the same time it's quite different. The other pets would come into play with full stats and 3 nourishment counters. At the end of your turn, if it doesn't have haste, remove a counter. When there's only 1 counter left it will be pumped with a keyword description saying that your pet is hungry and needs to eat. When there's no counters left the creature will either become a 0/1 creature or something similar. Whenever a pet attacks or blocks you would put either 2 or 3 nourishment counters on it. I still need to work out the best balance for these though, but nevertheless, it makes the pets feel more alive.higher level pets would also start with more counters and get more through combat to indicate their expirience and battle-hardiness beyond the base stats. This could help balance the pets even better as things like the croc could go for longer without hunting.

Moomarc, I am planning on adding my balanced pets after Max finishes all his work with them, as it's something that had been on my plate for a while. These are interesting ideas, but I don't think it should replace the "basic" pets, that will get the rebalancing.

[Max mtg]

I pass priority to the ones who would balance pets