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Evolve mechanic is in!

It's based very much on the trigger of Sigil Captain where the 'if a card with power or toughness greater than' is handled in the ValidCard portion of the trigger rather than a condition on the trigger. I can't think of any situation where it would make a difference. But if there is, it should just be a case of adding two conditions to the triggered ability and adding the extra svars, TriggeredCard$CardPower/Toughness. Let me know whether this addition is necessary.

moomarc wrote:Evolve mechanic is in!

It's based very much on the trigger of Sigil Captain where the 'if a card with power or toughness greater than' is handled in the ValidCard portion of the trigger rather than a condition on the trigger. I can't think of any situation where it would make a difference.

I think that should be ok. It's basically treating ValidCard as a conditional, even though it's not going through "TriggerConditionals"

Here are the situations I'd try:
1) 0/1 Evolver out. 3/1 ETB. Trigger happens. Trigger resolves.
3) 0/1 Evolver out. 3/1 ETB. Trigger happens. In response, cast Shrink on 3/1. Evolver shouldn't evolve.
3) 0/1 Evolver out. 0/1 ETB. Trigger doesn't happen.

friarsol wrote:

moomarc wrote:Evolve mechanic is in!

It's based very much on the trigger of Sigil Captain where the 'if a card with power or toughness greater than' is handled in the ValidCard portion of the trigger rather than a condition on the trigger. I can't think of any situation where it would make a difference.

I think that should be ok. It's basically treating ValidCard as a conditional, even though it's not going through "TriggerConditionals"

Here are the situations I'd try:
1) 0/1 Evolver out. 3/1 ETB. Trigger happens. Trigger resolves.
3) 0/1 Evolver out. 3/1 ETB. Trigger happens. In response, cast Shrink on 3/1. Evolver shouldn't evolve.
3) 0/1 Evolver out. 0/1 ETB. Trigger doesn't happen.

Thanks Sol. I tested 1 and 3 for power and toughness. Just need to test the second situation. If validity is checked again it'll be fine, otherwise I'll add the two conditionals on the triggered ability. Will only get a chance tomorrow afternoon at earliest. So if anyone wants to get it done before then, and assuming the second test fails, just add ConditionCheckSVar$EvoX | ConditionSVarCompare$LTTrigX and ConditionCheckSVar$EvoY | ConditionSVarCompare$LTTrigY to the ability and the additional svars TrigX:TriggeredCard$CardPower and TrigY:TriggeredCard$CardToughness.

moomarc wrote:

friarsol wrote:I think that should be ok. It's basically treating ValidCard as a conditional, even though it's not going through "TriggerConditionals"

Here are the situations I'd try:
1) 0/1 Evolver out. 3/1 ETB. Trigger happens. Trigger resolves.
2) 0/1 Evolver out. 3/1 ETB. Trigger happens. In response, cast Shrink on 3/1. Evolver shouldn't evolve.
3) 0/1 Evolver out. 0/1 ETB. Trigger doesn't happen.

Thanks Sol. I tested 1 and 3 for power and toughness. Just need to test the second situation. If validity is checked again it'll be fine, otherwise I'll add the two conditionals on the triggered ability. Will only get a chance tomorrow afternoon at earliest. So if anyone wants to get it done before then, and assuming the second test fails, just add ConditionCheckSVar$EvoX | ConditionSVarCompare$LTTrigX and ConditionCheckSVar$EvoY | ConditionSVarCompare$LTTrigY to the ability and the additional svars TrigX:TriggeredCard$CardPower and TrigY:TriggeredCard$CardToughness.

Test #2 fails because there is no conditional check at the adding counters resolution step. In case #2, the trigger should go on the stack, so players can respond to it. Adding conditionals to the trigger would prevent that from happening. The conditionals need to be incorporated into the ability resolution step. Here's a script of my proposed fix

proposed Evolve macro | Open

T:Mode$ ChangesZone | Origin$ Any | Destination$ Battlefield | ValidCard$ Creature.powerGTEvolvePowerSelf+YouCtrl,Creature.toughnessGTEvolveToughnessSelf+YouCtrl | TriggerZones$ Battlefield | Execute$ EvolveTestPower | Secondary$ True | TriggerDescription$ Evolve (Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature has greater power or toughness than this creature, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.)
SVar:EvolveTestPower:AB$ StoreSVar | Cost$ 0 | SVar$ EvolveFlag | Type$ Number | Expression$ 1 | ConditionCheckSVar$ EvolvePowerETB | ConditionSVarCompare$ GTEvolvePowerSelf | SubAbility$ EvolveTestToughness
SVar:EvolveTestToughness:DB$ StoreSVar | SVar$ EvolveFlag | Type$ Number | Expression$ 1 | ConditionCheckSVar$ EvolveToughnessETB | ConditionSVarCompare$ GTEvolveToughnessSelf | SubAbility$ EvolveAddCounter
SVar:EvolveAddCounter:DB$ PutCounter | Defined$ Self | CounterType$ P1P1 | CounterNum$ 1 | ConditionCheckSVar$ EvolveFlag | ConditionSVarCompare$ EQ1 | SubAbility$ EvolveResetFlag
SVar:EvolveResetFlag:DB$ StoreSVar | SVar$ EvolveFlag | Type$ Number | Expression$ 0
SVar:EvolvePowerSelf:Count$CardPower
SVar:EvolveToughnessSelf:Count$CardToughness
SVar:EvolvePowerETB:TriggeredCard$CardPower
SVar:EvolveToughnessETB:TriggeredCard$CardToughness
SVar:EvolveFlag:Number$0

I hard scripted Cloudfin Raptor with the above trigger and it passed all of Sol's tests. I haven't changed the Evolve macro in the code yet in case someone had a simpler way to implement the trigger.

ArsenalNut wrote:In case #2, the trigger should go on the stack, so players can respond to it. Adding conditionals to the trigger would prevent that from happening. The conditionals need to be incorporated into the ability resolution step.

This isn't correct. TriggerConditions represent the "intervening if" of the Trigger. They are checked both when a Trigger triggers, and just before a Trigger resolves. I guess I was thinking that ValidCards might be checked when these other conditions are checked, but it makes sense that it isn't rechecked.

friarsol wrote:

ArsenalNut wrote:In case #2, the trigger should go on the stack, so players can respond to it. Adding conditionals to the trigger would prevent that from happening. The conditionals need to be incorporated into the ability resolution step.

This isn't correct. TriggerConditions represent the "intervening if" of the Trigger. They are checked both when a Trigger triggers, and just before a Trigger resolves. I guess I was thinking that ValidCards might be checked when these other conditions are checked, but it makes sense that it isn't rechecked.

I forgot that the Trigger conditions get checked twice. I thought the conditionals only got checked once when trying to put the trigger on the stack.

I am not sure how to construct the trigger condition though. The condition needs to compare the host card to the specific card coming into play but triggering objects aren't stored until the trigger is actual put on the stack. CheckSVar involving the TriggeredCard won't work and IsPresent checks everything in the zone.

I have coded up a solution to setup an EvolveCondition check similar to some of the other conditions in requirementsCheck e.g. MetalCraft. The requirementsCheck method is overloaded to pass in runParams. The call from runSingleTrigger passes in the runParams that hasn't been stored yet. The call from forge.card.trigger.WrappedAbility.resolve() uses the runParams that is stored when the trigger was put on the stack. I tested the code and it works but wanted a peer review to see if this is the best way to go before I checked it in.

Also, I need rules clarification. If the trigger goes on the stack but the triggering creature is removed from play before it resolves, does the triggered ability fizzle or use the LKI of the creature before it left play?

ArsenalNut wrote:Also, I need rules clarification. If the trigger goes on the stack but the triggering creature is removed from play before it resolves, does the triggered ability fizzle or use the LKI of the creature before it left play?

LKI.

friarsol wrote:

ArsenalNut wrote:Also, I need rules clarification. If the trigger goes on the stack but the triggering creature is removed from play before it resolves, does the triggered ability fizzle or use the LKI of the creature before it left play?

LKI.

I checked in my changes to the Evolve mechanic and test that it does use LKI.

I've tested Hellkite Tyrant in dev mode and it seems the wingame trigger does not use the stack.

Ok, ive tried my hand at scripting cards again, these are Consuming Aberration, Duskmantle Guildmage and Mind Grind (anyone else see a pattern in the cards?)

Consuming Aberration http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138286&d=1357102982
Duskmantle Guildmage http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138360&d=1357243181
Mind Grind http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138510&d=1357534867

Of these, Consuming Aberration is probably most likely to be wrong, at least i think so

Consuming Aberration | Open

Name:Consuming Aberration
ManaCost:3 U B
Types:Creature Horror
Text:no text
PT:*/*
S:Mode$ Continuous | EffectZone$ All | CharacteristicDefining$ True | SetPower$ X | SetToughness$ X | Description$ CARDNAME's power and toughness are each equal to the number of cards in your opponents' graveyards.
SVar:X:Count$ValidGraveyard Player.Opponent
T:Mode$ SpellCast | ValidActivatingPlayer$ You | Execute$ Grind | TriggerZones$ Battlefield | TriggerDescription$ Whenever you cast a spell, each opponent reveals cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals a land card, then puts those cards into his or her graveyard.
SVar:Grind:SP$ DigUntil | Defined$ Player.Opponent | Amount$ 1 | Valid$ Land | ValidDescription$ land | RevealedDestination$ Graveyard
SVar:Rarity:Rare
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/consuming_aberration.jpg
SetInfo:GTC|Rare|http://magiccards.info/scans/en/gtc/152.jpg
Oracle:Consuming Aberration's power and toughness are each equal to the number of cards in your opponents' graveyards. \nWhenever you cast a spell, each opponent reveals cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals a land card, then puts those cards into his or her graveyard.
End

Duskmantle Guildmage | Open

Name:Duskmantle Guildmage
ManaCost:U B
Types:Creature Human Wizard
Text:no text
PT:2/2
T:Mode$ ChangesZone | Origin$ Any | Destination$ Graveyard | ValidCard$ Card.nonToken+OppOwn | TriggerZones$ Battlefield | Execute$ TrigLoseLife | TriggerDescription$ Whenever a card is put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere this turn, that player loses 1 life.
SVar:TrigLoseLife:AB$ LoseLife | Cost$ 0 | Defined$ TriggeredCardOwner | LifeAmount$ 1
A:AB$ Mill | Cost$ 2 U B | NumCards$ 2 | ValidTgts$ Player | TgtPrompt$ Choose a player | SpellDescription$ Target player puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
SVar:Rarity:Uncommon
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/duskmantle_guildmage.jpg
SetInfo:GTC|Uncommon|http://magiccards.info/scans/en/gtc/158.jpg
Oracle:{1}{U}{B}: Whenever a card is put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere this turn, that player loses 1 life. \n{2}{U}{B}, Target player puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
End

Mind Grind | Open

Name:Mind Grind
ManaCost:X U B
Types:Sorcery
Text:X can't be 0.
A:SP$ DigUntil | Cost$ X U B | Defined$ Player.Opponent | References$ X | Amount$ X | Valid$ Land | ValidDescription$ land | RevealedDestination$ Graveyard | SpellDescription$ Each opponent reveals cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals X land cards, then puts all cards revealed this way into his or her graveyard. X can't be 0.
SVar:X:Count$xPaid
SVar:Rarity:Rare
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/mind_grind.jpg
SetInfo:GTC|Rare|http://magiccards.info/scans/en/gtc/178.jpg
Oracle:Each opponent reveals cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals X land cards, then puts all cards revealed this way into his or her graveyard. X can't be 0.
End

And i felt like i was on a roll, so i kept going

Clan Defiance (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138287&d=1357102982)
Crypt Ghast (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138377&d=1357275757)
Gateway Shade (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138200&d=1356930214)
Zhur-Taa Swine (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138199&d=1356930214)
Viashino Shanktail (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138222&d=1356930817)
Skarrg Goliath (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138284&d=1357102982)

Clan Defiance | Open

Name:Clan Defiance
ManaCost:X R G
Types:Sorcery
Text:no text
A:SP$ Charm | Cost$ X R G | MinCharmNum$ 1 | CharmNum$ 3 | Choices$ DealDamageCreature.withFlying,DealDamageCreature.withoutFlying,DealDamagePlayer | SpellDescription$ Choose one or more - Clan Defiance deals X damage to target creature with flying; Clan Defiance deals X damage to target creature without flying; and/or Clan Defiance deals X damage to target player.
SVar:DealDamage | ValidTgts$ Creature.withFlying | TgtPrompt$ Select target creature with flying | NumDmg$ X | References$ X | SpellDescription$ Clan Defiance deals X damage to target creature with flying;
SVar:DealDamage | ValidTgts$ Creature.withoutFlying | TgtPrompt$ Select target creature without flying | NumDmg$ X | References$ X | SpellDescription$ Clan Defiance deals X damage to target creature without flying
SVar:DealDamage | ValidTgts$ Player | TgtPrompt$ Select target Player | NumDmg$ X | References$ X | SpellDescription$ and/or Clan Defiance deals X damage to target player.
SVar:X:Count$xPaid
SVar:Rarity:Rare
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/clan_defiance.jpg
SetInfo:GTC|Rare|http://magiccards.info/scans/en/gtc/153.jpg
Oracle:Choose one or more - Clan Defiance deals X damage to target creature with flying; Clan Defiance deals X damage to target creature without flying; and/or Clan Defiance deals X damage to target player.
End

Crypt Ghast | Open

Name:Crypt Ghast
ManaCost:3 B
Types:Creature Spirit
Text:no text
PT:2/2
K:Extort
T:Mode$ TapsForMana | ValidCard$ Swamp.YouCtrl | Execute$ TrigMana | TriggerZones$ Battlefield | Static$ True | TriggerDescription$ Whenever you tap a Swamp for mana, add B to your mana pool (in addition to the mana the land produces).
SVar:TrigMana:AB$Mana | Cost$ 0 | Produced$ B | Amount$ 1
SVar:Rarity:Rare
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/crypt_ghast.jpg
SetInfo:GTC|Rare|http://magiccards.info/scans/en/gtc/61.jpg
Oracle:Extort \nWhenever you tap a swamp for mana, add to your mana pool (in addition to the mana the land produces).
End

Gateway Shade | Open

Name:Gateway Shade
ManaCost:2 B
Types:Creature Shade
Text:no text
PT:1/1
A:AB$ Pump | Cost$ B | NumAtt$ +1 | NumDef$ +1 | SpellDescription$ CARDNAME gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
A:AB$ Pump | Cost$ tapXType<1/Gate> | NumAtt$ +2 | NumDef$ +2 | SpellDescription$ CARDNAME gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
SVar:Rarity:Rare
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/gateway_shade.jpg
SetInfo:GTC|Rare|http://magiccards.info/scans/en/gtc/65.jpg
Oracle:{B}: Gateway Shade gets +1/+1 until end of turn.\nTap an untapped Gate you control: Gateway Shade gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
End

Zhur-Taa Swine | Open

Name:Zhur-Taa Swine
ManaCost:3 R G
Types:Creature Boar
Text:no text
PT:5/4
A:AB$ Pump | Cost$ 1 R G Discard<1/CARDNAME> | ActivationZone$ Hand | PrecostDesc$ Bloodrush | ValidTgts$ Creature.attacking | TgtPrompt$ Select target attacking creature | NumAtt$ +5 | NumDef$ +4 | SpellDescription$ Target attacking creature gets +5/+4 until end of turn.
SVar:Rarity:Common
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/zhur-taa_swine.jpg
SetInfo:GTC|Common|http://magiccards.info/scans/en/gtc/210.jpg
Oracle:Bloodrush - , Discard Zhur-Taa Swine: Target attacking creature gets +5/+4 until end of turn.
End

These two need the keyword added to the Bloodrush ability, i wasnt sure how to do it, so i left it... Have fun whoever knows what they are doing

Skarrg Goliath | Open

Name:Skarrg Goliath
ManaCost:6 G G
Types:Creature Beast
Text:no text
PT:9/9
K:Trample
A:AB$ Pump | Cost$ 5 G G Discard<1/CARDNAME> | ActivationZone$ Hand | PrecostDesc$ Bloodrush | ValidTgts$ Creature.attacking | TgtPrompt$ Select target attacking creature | NumAtt$ +9 | NumDef$ +9 | SpellDescription$ Target attacking creature gets +9/+9 and gains trample until end of turn.
SVar:Rarity:Rare
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/skarrg_goliath.jpg
SetInfo:GTC|Rare|http://magiccards.info/scans/en/gtc/133.jpg
Oracle:Trample\nBloodrush - , Discard Skarrg Goliath: Target attacking creature gets +9/+9 and gains trample until end of turn.
End

Viashino Shanktail | Open

Name:Viashino Shanktail
ManaCost:3 R
Types:Creature Viashino Warrior
Text:no text
PT:3/1
K:First strike
A:AB$ Pump | Cost$ 2 R Discard<1/CARDNAME> | ActivationZone$ Hand | PrecostDesc$ Bloodrush | ValidTgts$ Creature.attacking | TgtPrompt$ Select target attacking creature | NumAtt$ +3 | NumDef$ +1 | SpellDescription$ Target attacking creature gets +3/+1 and gains first strike until end of turn.
SVar:Rarity:Uncommon
SVar:Picture:http://www.wizards.com/global/images/magic/general/viashino_shanktail.jpg
SetInfo:GTC|Uncommon|http://magiccards.info/scans/en/gtc/110.jpg
Oracle:First strike\nBloodrush - , Discard Viashino Shanktail: Target attacking creature gets +3/+1 and gains first strike until end of turn.
End

PowerClaws wrote:These two need the keyword added to the Bloodrush ability, i wasnt sure how to do it, so i left it... Have fun whoever knows what they are doing

The syntax for adding a keyword with the Pump effect is "KW$ <keyword>".

PowerClaws wrote:Ok, ive tried my hand at scripting cards again, these are Consuming Aberration, Duskmantle Guildmage and Mind Grind (anyone else see a pattern in the cards?)

The first ability of Duskmantle Guildmage is not a trigger. It should create an effect with the trigger.

The cost for Mind Grid needs XCantBe0 in it.

The count for Consuming Aberration P/T should be "Count$ValidGraveyard Card.OppOwn". Also the triggered ability should be "AB$" instead of "SP$" and it needs a "Cost$ 0".

friarsol wrote:Wow, Cipher is ridiculous, but shouldn't be terrible to code up. We just need a new "imprint" mechanic, and then Animate a triggered ability onto the target creature.

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/d ... efc_01.png

I started playing around with trying to implement the Cipher mechanic today. One of the tripping points I am having is the triggered ability. Here's one of the finer points mentioned on the Gatecrash Mechanics:

If more than one spell is encoded on a single creature, you can copy any or all of them when that creature deals combat damage to a player. You can cast the copies in any order.

I interpret this to mean that the combat damage trigger for the encoded creature only triggers once and you choose the order of the encoded spells to play. However, using the Animate effect to add the trigger would cause multiple instances of the combat damage trigger to occur, one for each encoded spell. Am I interpreting this correctly?

I have already figured out a way to modify the Play effect to keep the copied spell from encoding again. I am really leaning towards creating a new effect to handle the whole encoding process rather than trying to string a bunch of existing effects together and dealing with all the conditionals required at each step.

Here's what my envisioned prototype:

cipher prototype | Open

A:SP$ <whatever the spell does> | SubAbility$ Cipher
SVar:Cipher:DB$ Encode | Defined$ Self | ConditionCheckSVar$ IsEncoded | ConditionSVarCompare$ EQ0
SVar:IsEncoded:Number$0

The new Encode effect would handle deciding whether to encode or not, choosing the creature, and setting up the triggers on the chosen creature properly. The triggered Play effect would be change the value of IsEncoded on the copied card so that the encoding doesn't occur for copies of the spell.

ArsenalNut wrote:I interpret this to mean that the combat damage trigger for the encoded creature only triggers once and you choose the order of the encoded spells to play. However, using the Animate effect to add the trigger would cause multiple instances of the combat damage trigger to occur, one for each encoded spell. Am I interpreting this correctly?

Until we get an official FAQ referencing the official rules there's no way to know. But yes, my interpretation is that multiple triggers will happen on the damage. You may choose to put them on the stack in whichever order you like as you normally would, this would constitute as the "any order" since each trigger has a may, this also meets the "any or all of them" line. I guess the main question is "Will there be 1 trigger per Ciphered spell, or 1 trigger with all of the Ciphered spells?"