The cardpool and the 2000 card limit

[Wally]

Ok so I've been thinking about the card pool, the CSV file and the 2000 card limit.

It would be great if we had a way to increase the limit past 2000, and I'm still hoping a way will be discovered. But to play devil's advocate what if there isn't a way and we are stuck with 2000 as a hard limit? Is it time to rationalise the card pool and to optimise the efficiency of the deciding resource?

I'm not a coder and I don't know what is technically possible within the constraints of the program but a few things leaped out at me while looking at the cardlist in manalink.csv.

First off, there are a couple of dozen cards that are marked as 'empty' or 'none' within the list. That these 'un-used' slots have survived so long suggests that despite the name they are actually serving some purpose (placeholders of some type?). What is it and is it possible to now bypass that original purpose and use the slots with the increased coding knowledge now available? If it is, that would free up 43 slots.

Can we free up any slots by deleting un-codable cards? Some cards look to my uneducated eye as being very difficult or impossible to implement within the current engine. Relentless Assault as an example, listed since the original expansion by Mok into 8th edition cards, but never implemented. Will the engine allow a second combat phase? If not, we can replace that with some other goodie. What about Falling Star, Blinding Angel and others?

Can we free up slots by deleting marginal unimplemented old cards? Don't get me wrong, I love old cards and mainly play with them. But even within the realm of the 'old' I'd rather see say Quarum Trench Gnomes and Great Wall deleted if it meant a slot could be made available for say Contagion and Icatian Javelineers two great old cards (especially the latter, which even now still sees play in Vintage fish decks). Or Shelkin Brownie and Seafarer's Quay etc deleted to make room for the Thallids. Or Chill and Stormbind fitted in somewhere.

Anyway just some ideas. What do others think?

EDIT: May be some duplicates in CSV list too. Gravedigger is listed twice, slot 1051 and slot 1535. Utopia Tree also has 2 slots, 1200 and 1257.

[Huggybaby]

It's a good subject.

I don't see how Falling Star is possible, maybe you had something else in mind?

[Wally]

It's a good subject.

I don't see how Falling Star is possible, maybe you had something else in mind?

I dont think its possible either which is why I listed it as a candidate for removing. Its currently in the csv (card 632).

[Huggybaby]

Sorry, I read it as you wanting to add that card. lol

[gmzombie]

wasent chaos orb the same thing kinda...those cards could never work but there has to be a way to get relentless assault to work. Snacko this is where i look at you man. Im kinda thinking of a hacked time walk ability...if that is even possible.

[SEE]

Manalink.csv Positions with 0 as the "CODED CARD" value, in positions 0-1850:

27 - Camouflage
31 - Empty
78 - False Orders
120 - Illusionary Mask
289 - Word of Command
617 - Dream Coat
619 - Dwarven Song
624 - Enchanted Being
625 - Enchantment Alteration
627 - Equinox
630 - Evil Eye of Orms-by-Gore
632 - Falling Star
633 - Feint
634 - Field of Dreams
636 - Firestorm Phoenix
639 - Floral Spuzzem
641 - Forethought Amulet
644 - Gabriel Angelfire
646 - Gauntlets of Chaos
648 - Giant Slug
651 - Glyph of Delusion
652 - Glyph of Destruction
653 - Glyph of Doom
654 - Glyph of Life
655 - Glyph of Reincarnation
656 - Gosta Dirk
659 - Great Wall
664 - Halfdane
666 - Hazezon Tamar
668 - Heaven's Gate
670 - Hell's Caretaker
675 - Horror of Horrors
678 - Ichneumon Druid
680 - Imprison
681 - In the Eye of Chaos
682 - Indestructible Aura
684 - Infinite Authority
685 - Invoke Prejudice
691 - Johan
693 - Juxtapose
700 - Knowledge Vault
705 - Kry Shield
711 - Land's Edge
712 - Lesser Werewolf
714 - Life Matrix
716 - Living Plane
717 - Livonya Silone
718 - Lord Magnus
722 - Marble Priest
724 - Master of the Hunt
729 - Mountain Stronghold
731 - Nebuchadnezzar
732 - Nether Void
734 - North Star
735 - Nova Pentacle
738 - Part Water
746 - Presence of the Master
747 - Primordial ooze
750 - Psychic Purge
751 - Puppet Master
753 - Quagmire
754 - Quarum Trench Gnomes
761 - Rapid Fire
762 - Rasputin Dreamweaver
764 - Recall
766 - Reincarnation
769 - Remove Enchantments
773 - Reverberation
775 - Ring of Immortals
777 - Rohgahh of Kher Keep
778 - Rust
779 - Sea Kings' Blessing
780 - Seafarer's Quay
783 - Sentinel
785 - Shelkin Brownie
787 - Shimian Night Stalker
788 - Silhouette
792 - Spectral Cloak
797 - Stangg
800 - Subdue
802 - Sword of the Ages
804 - Sylvan Paradise
807 - Takklemaggot
808 - Telekinesis
809 - Teleport
810 - Tempest Efreet
815 - The Wretched
822 - Touch of Darkness
823 - Transmutation
824 - Triassic Egg
828 - Undertow
830 - Unholy Citadel
832 - Ur-Drago
836 - Venarian Gold
838 - Voodoo Doll
840 - Wall of Caltrops
846 - Wall of Putrid Flesh
847 - Wall of Shadows
849 - Wall of Vapor
857 - Wood Elemental
871 - Empty
872 - Empty
873 - Empty
874 - Empty
875 - Empty
876 - Empty
877 - Empty
878 - Empty
879 - Empty
880 - Empty
881 - Empty
882 - Empty
883 - Empty
884 - Empty
886 - Wolves of the Hunt
889 - Sand Warrior
893 - Stangg Twin
901 - None
902 - None
903 - None
904 - None
905 - None
906 - None
907 - None
908 - None
911 - None
912 - None
913 - None
914 - None
915 - None
916 - None
917 - None
918 - None
919 - None
920 - None
921 - None
922 - None
923 - None
924 - None
925 - None
926 - None
927 - None
928 - None
929 - None
933 - Electric Eel
934 - Festival
945 - Scarwood Bandits
981 - Blinding Angel
984 - Brass Herald
1002 - Cowardice
1013 - Deflection
1036 - Empty
1041 - Furnace of Rath
1043 - Gaea's Herald
1051 - Gravedigger
1052 - Guerrilla Tactics
1053 - Hammer of Bogardan
1064 - Ivory Mask
1072 - Living Terrain
1074 - Lone Wolf
1076 - Lord of the Undead
1086 - Mind Bend
1088 - Mind Slash
1092 - Empty
1095 - Natural Affinity
1103 - Oracle's Attendants
1111 - Phyrexian Colossus
1127 - Redeem
1129 - Relentless Assault
1132 - Rhox
1136 - Sacred Ground
1159 - Spreading Algae
1163 - Story Circle
1168 - Teferi's Puzzle Box
1171 - Thieves' Auction
1178 - Two-Headed Dragon
1257 - Utopia Tree
1431 - Fanning the Flames
1555 - Baron Sengir
1556 - Chandler
1558 - Didgeridoo
1559 - Drudge Spell
1560 - Dwarven Pony
1562 - Faerie Noble
1563 - Grandmother Sengir
1564 - Heart Wolf
1565 - Irini Sengir
1566 - Joven
1568 - Primal Order
1569 - Reef Pirates
1570 - Sengir Autocrat
1571 - Serrated Arrows
1573 - Spectral Bears
1574 - Torture
1577 - Willow Priestess
1625 - Stromgald Crusader
1834 - Sword of Light and Shadow

[Wally]

Another possibility is deleting the CIPT dual land cycle from Invasion (Coastal Tower etc) as they are pretty much redundant with the CIPT tri-lands from Alara

[jatill]

Another possibility is deleting the CIPT dual land cycle from Invasion (Coastal Tower etc) as they are pretty much redundant with the CIPT tri-lands from Alara

I wouldn't go around messing with any existing cards. Not only do you mess up people's decks, but you also mess with sealed and draft (in this case, 8th edition).

[gmzombie]

some of these cards if jatill looked at them im sure he could code in anyways...i mean master of the hunt really that is a hard card...i still think relentless assault can be coded via a hacked time walk

[SEE]

some of these cards if jatill looked at them im sure he could code in anyways...i mean master of the hunt really that is a hard card...

Trick seems to be that the "Wolves of the Hunt" it produces have "Bands with Other" instead of straight Banding, and implementing that correctly would require coding for essentially no useful end.

[jatill]

some of these cards if jatill looked at them im sure he could code in anyways...i mean master of the hunt really that is a hard card...

One of these cards will be in Monday's build... ohhh... the suspense!

[gmzombie]

to be honest i forgot that wolves band with others...how does that work again. cause you can block with any 2 creatures...or does this affect more than 2 creature blocks>?

[SEE]

"Band with others" . . . is described at http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature/21.

(Really, since you're paying so much for the things, a * implementation where they have real banding wouldn't be unbalancing.)

[CirothUngol]

If my rusty memory serves sufficiently, the "Bands with Other..." ability is almost exactly like the real Banding ability except;

1. Can only Band with matching creature type who has "Bands with Other..."
2. Must have at least 2 matching creature types with "Bands with Other..." in the blocking group for it to work like Banding.

More evidence that Legends was one of the most ill-planned sets ever. (had horrible collation too)

[Snacko]

502.11b - An attacking creature with "bands with other quality" can form an attacking band with other creatures that have the same "bands with other quality" ability. Creatures with banding can also join this band, but creatures without banding can't. The creatures in this band don't have to have the creature type specified in the "bands with other quality" ability. Blocking this band follows the same general rules as for banding. CompRules 2007/07/13

So it's quite convoluted ability as described in the article linked above.

Unhinged even has Old Fogey, with all the most obscure abilities (not all of them, includes bands with other!).