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Proliferate and counters

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Re: Proliferate and counters

Postby Aquillion » 02 May 2014, 03:50

Korath wrote:This'll be used to hint the AI whenever it's making a choice of counter type to add/move/remove etc, not just proliferate, so there's value in ranking them anyway. Clockspinning, for example, needs to know whether it should rate removing a time counter on a suspended card higher than adding a +1/+2 counter to a card on the bf.
Also, for Clockspinning, it should value removing the counters under 'having any is bad' from its own permanents, or the ones where 'having any is good' from its opponent's permanents. Not sure how easy that would be to handle, though, and at least the ranking will keep the AI from doing utterly stupid things with it -- Clockspinning is a complicated enough card that the AI will probably never be able to get it quite right outside of trivial situations.
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Re: Proliferate and counters

Postby stassy » 02 May 2014, 07:27

As current version now, AI Clockspinning is randomly removing or adding counters on opponent suspended cards, so it's already a good thing it can at least cast it and target properly
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counters

Postby BAgate » 16 May 2014, 13:16

Just a request, and I don't know if it is possible, but could we allow +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters to coexist?

I was just testing Carnifex Demon after Forgotten Ancient, and when I used the Carnifex Demon it removed counters from the Forgotten Ancient, which 1) doesn't allow Forgotten Ancient's ability to be used most effectively, and 2) means it doesn't have -1/-1 counters to proliferate or remove with other effects.
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Re: Proliferate and counters

Postby Korath » 16 May 2014, 20:34

It's possible but not legal - +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters annihilate each other as a state-based action (704.5r), and there's no opportunity to respond (704.3).
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Re: Proliferate and counters

Postby BAgate » 17 May 2014, 05:56

Huh, never knew that. Wonder why.
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Re: counters

Postby Aquillion » 26 Jun 2014, 08:00

BAgate wrote:Just a request, and I don't know if it is possible, but could we allow +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters to coexist?

I was just testing Carnifex Demon after Forgotten Ancient, and when I used the Carnifex Demon it removed counters from the Forgotten Ancient, which 1) doesn't allow Forgotten Ancient's ability to be used most effectively, and 2) means it doesn't have -1/-1 counters to proliferate or remove with other effects.
Belatedly: Possibly one fix for that would be to have it give a positive value for -1/-1 counters on Carnifax Demon when it has only one remaining (so it will value adding more if it controls it), and a 0 value otherwise (so it won't add more or remove them, aside from by using its ability.)

But cards that can benefit from having -1/-1 counters are extremely tricky for the AI to manage, and I suspect no matter how it's arranged it will always make the wrong decision under certain circumstances.
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