Anti-wish list

[MalkolmX]

Imo you should keep Ravages of War, yes it is identical to Armageddon, but in decks planning to play Armageddon Ravages of War works as 5th-8th Armageddon, even if you don't plan to play more than 4 Armageddon is better to play like 2/2 split between Armageddon and Ravages. But it's pretty much your decision Jatill since you will most likely be the one doing the "job". Note: Could you please add Steppe Lynx to best of magic version? I hope you do

[Tattooedoni]

I agree with Joemuz, this a great, and very exciting idea. The idea of the best of being a more tournament enviornment covering vintage to modern cards is excellent, especially when it leaves sealed/draft/shandalar as their own entity. I think a list of the best cards full of casual favorites and historical tournament staples is great! I know I have been hoping to see some other Zendikar cards move over from the draft version. 

I am not at all well versed at the switcher, I do not usually use it at all. I did see the one unused number though. Could there be a tutorial created so that the average user could use the master card list to come up with their personal 2000 (or even a base of 1000 with the next 1000 optional)? Without needing a full program created for it? With a use at your own risk disclaimer so no one spends hours fixing other peoples game they break of course.

As far as coding the new cards to replace the removed ones I have been studying the tutorial to do just that. I call dibs on Sphinx of the Steel Wind! I'm gonna start working on it soon since it is a current favorite tinker target for vintage tezzeret players and a simple place to start... Null Rod/Chalice of the Void here I come (yeah right)!

As far as an actual list of my opinions go:
-I agree with most of Jatills short list (lucky charms, laces, ante cards if it doesn't break Shandalar since they are banned in vintage)
-Functionally identical/strictly worse cards is a good idea but you have to be careful. For the most part there is enough variation that they are unneccisarry, but those cards have always been good for redundancy. Pump knights, mana elves, and white weenies for example are often played in the same deck. 
- Vanilla creatures: I think keeping Wolly Thoctar but dumping the dark and legends vanillas that have horrible power/toughness ratios and high casting costs is perfect.
- wards out!
- mana artifacts: mana batteries out, they are too awful. Signets in, they are historical standard staples and currently good in extended. I really like to make historical tournament decks I never got a chance to play and try them out, and it would be hard to make solar flare or something without them...
- Astral set out if it doesn't break Shandalar.
- dual lands: I think that access to all duals is essential to building mana bases especially for decks in formats other than vintage. Anything extended to now and historical tournament decks  need them. 
-Entomb in! That card may blow up soon in legacy, and it has been the perfect re-animator card for years.


Anyway I am really stoaked to see this thread. It verifies my theory that Jatill is  interested in what the players think of the game and that makes me really happy. 

We should all just start going through the deck editor and putting in what we want out into a deck, copying the cards out of the deck list and putting together a master list, so we are contributing time as well. I will help with this, and people can pm me their lists and I will start adding it up. Unanimous stuff would obviously be a good starting point for removal, and contested cards could be discussed. I bet people could change my mind on stuff I don't mind losing.  

[sopcich04]

orion! are u high?! lol actually good list except word of binding is a phenom! its one of those cards that when it is used, the game is just about to be over

[aww1979]

Yeah, word of binding is a beast in sealed deck.

[0rion79]

Ops, sorry: of course, it was in the list by mistake.
Anyway, thanks for the appreciation about the list.

[Gargaroz]

My opinion in the whole question is that the best thing to do is create more versions. As soon as new cards pop out, we'll be forced to remove more stuff, for more people dismay.

So, my idea is to create the following versions :
- an old manalink 1.0, with all the old crap available for Shandalar.
- a T1/Legacy version
- an Extended version
- a T2 version.

I know, it's a lot of work, but for now I volounteer. However, a tool for exporting / importing records between various version of Magic.exe and Manalink.csv will be needed, in order to not become completely insane.

[aww1979]

Yeah, I wonder if there is a way to create some kind of editor that will let you change which of the 2000 cards you have in the array at any one time. The program would have to be able to go through all your decks and edit them, which is probably a lot of work.

Just looking at the posts in this thread so far, it is clear that we will never all agree on which cards are crappy and which are worth using. It would be awesome if we could somehow choose which 2000 cards we wanted to use.

For instance, in the Zendikar set, some of the cards I think are the best are only in the zendikar version and not in the 'best of' version, and vice versa. I'm sure I could edit the csv file and manually switch out cards I didn't like for more zendikar, but then the next time I download an update, my changes would be erased. That, or I'd either have to change them all again, or never update.

I do like the idea of Gargaroz to have a couple different versions for the different environments. It could be done in a way similar to how zendikar was. And while something like Malakar Bloodwitch might be playable in T2, it will never see the light of day in T1, so a lot of room could be made in the non-T2 versions for older cards, and vice versa; in T2, nobody is playing moxes, workshops, and so on.

I have no idea how viable any of this is, but I'm just tossing out ideas and hoping something I said helps :p

[jatill]

Yeah, I wonder if there is a way to create some kind of editor that will let you change which of the 2000 cards you have in the array at any one time.

I actually think this would be a relatively simple program to write by someone with the proper experience. I don't own a copy of VB anymore (or have the experience with it), but others may be able to do this in the future.

[monopoman]

Well really it affecting shandalar shouldn't be an issue at all people can easily keep a 2nd copy of the game installed if they love shandalar that much.

But yeah stuff like removing Bounce Lands, Signets, Entomb is a joke. Seriously listen to the people that have played competitive magic the game has cards that are about 100x worse then those in it.

Yeah if somehow a version of each format could be made that would be awesome. A 2000 card limit for standard is not ridiculous at all. For Legacy or vintage you can also get under that number if you just look at cards that make their way into decks.

Then perhaps a 3rd format of the game where its just for drafting/sealed which has sets in it.

[0rion79]

In my humble opinion, we shouldn't worry too much until when the space is really over.
If we start with the suggested list, which would also enhance the sealed deck with Dark and Legends by removing 100% useless junk, we have A LOT of free space.
I've made a quick check in the CSV and, considering uncoded cards, still empty slots and the cards listed for removals (laces, junk list, lucky charms, maybe the unpopular bouncelands...), we already have 120+ free slots to use for this purpose.
It is more than enough for some time! Then, maybe, we'll also find some way to extend the quantity of cards in the cards.dat file.

About this argument, Jatill, have you ever tried to create a second cards.dat file to be used TOGETHER with the original one, instead than in the place of it? Talking as a profane, maybe the problem is that - even if there is enough space on the Magic.exe - there is just a limit in the csv.dat file about the number of cards that it may host and so, splitting the load of cards among several files as you did by adding the ManalinkEh.dll to support the Magic.exe, it could be a solution to break the 2000 cards limit.

PS: even if off topic here, may I know why you didn't code Bringer of the White Dawn and Bringer of the Red Dawn?

[mathusalem]

hello,

I'm not in favor of removing too many cards,and I wouldn't want to get rid of the vanilla legends for example.. so my Anti wishlist will be short.

-lucky charms (although a lot of the AI's original decks uses the 5 original ones, althouh, beside the technical advance of discovering how to implement the life gain trigger I don't see the bonus of having the 5 new ones.
-ravnica bounce lands (I realize some people like the signets so I'm not including them)
-Ravages of war
-the laces.

21 slots......

[Stroggoii]

Dude, Entomb gives me turn 1 Ob-Nixilis all the time.

Most cards have strategy and gameplay flavour that would be greatly missed, I say we should only get rid of cards that are the same as others (functional reprints should be as their last print, IMO, and we should make Nantuko Husk into Vampire Aristocrat), Ante cards, and Vanilla.

Other than that, every card has a place in someone's strategy, even if it doesnt in yours.

[0rion79]

Well, actually we have both Phyrexian Ghoul and Nantuko Husk which are doing esactly the same thing and I think that only one of them is enough. I prefer the Ghoul but Vampire Aristocrat looks even better because it is a vampire and my Zombie Deck is already filled

[monopoman]

To point out cards people are listing..

Ravages of War has seen massive play in Legacy as Armageddons beyond 4 in decks that love that effect.

Entomb has seen a ton of play and fits in many many decks.

I also have found a lot of use wishing for bounce lands when your at your land limit and you need a double land drop they work well. You lose 0 tempo doing this unless your deck is fast as heck. If you have no other land to play then it gives you 2 land drops in a row basically.

Here is a list of horrible cards to remove...

Mind Bomb
Index
Drafna's Restoration
Amnesia
Balance of Power
Ashes to Ashes
Call to Power
Darkpact
Demonic Attorney
Word of Binding
Nausea
Eternal Flame
Mana Clash
Panic Attack
Sizzle
Rebirth
Typhoon
Visions
Aladdin's Lamp
Alchor's Tomb
Amulet of Kroog
Arena of the Ancients
Battering Ram
The Batteries
Bone Flute
Book of Rass
Greed

There ya go that should get you started 99% of these cards haven't seen play in a single mildly competitive deck in nearly a decade. Either that or they never saw play in any mildly competitive deck ever.