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jatill wrote:Re: Elves deck-
I use basically the same deck, but with Birchlore Rangers + Tendrils of Agony for the kill. It makes the combo slightly less clicking

I run both Tendrils and a Coat of Arms.. I've found that Force of Will or Gaddock Teeg can be total hosers, so running both can let you win either way. I still cant find an answer to Volcanic Fallout. That card is game for me; any ideas on that?
Also, I've decided to splash in a Timetwister to avoid decking and refill dead hands but haven't tested all that much... All in all, the elves deck plays pretty awesome.

Cheap mass removal is definitely the deck's weakness (Heaven forbid they stick a Night of Soul's Betrayal); there is no real way around it as far as I can tell, except to play somewhat conservatively, trying to keep cards in hand that will let you 'go off' next turn; i.e. a Glimpse and a way to generate mana (e.g. Nettles and a Rangers). And Teeg stops both Coat *and* Tendrils; usually you can kill them with just an elf army though, even if it takes two turns.

My personal preference is the Crossroads / Coat kill, I figure it actually cuts down on the clicking a little because you can give Priests haste and stop bothering with tapping multiple Sentinels for every spell; you usually have to do way too much clicking to draw into the wincon anyway Besides, it's much more impressive dealing several hundred damage at the end!

Agh! Can somebody please post these as a zip of .dck files? I'll post up the ~100 or soo I've got.

Thanks!

@ scythe000: I'll upload the 2 decks I posted earlier (not the Titan deck, as I consider that unfinished), and when I get around to it, I'll upload a bunch of my deck in .zip form.

somacat wrote:@ scythe000: I'll upload the 2 decks I posted earlier (not the Titan deck, as I consider that unfinished), and when I get around to it, I'll upload a bunch of my deck in .zip form.

Thank you so much!

Here's mine, 142 decks.

Here are the two decks I posted.

This is another deck I'm working on but I could use some help. The main problem I'm having is mustering enough mana to go off. The idea revolves around Living Death and Bogardan Hellkite; since Buried Alive only "buries" 3 creatures, Browbeat and Hidegutsu's Second Rite can do the trick if you come up short with the Hellkites. You can also watch as your opponent tries to find an answer to three 5/5 fliers in one turn and just wait it out to attack and kill him.

The list so far looks like this:

4 Underground Sea
3 Badlands
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Bazaar of Baghdad

4 Bogardan Hellkite
4 Living Death
4 Buried Alive
3 Entomb (It's unrestricted now)
4 Browbeat
1 Burning Wish
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk
1 Windfall
1 Memory Jar
1 Wheel of Fortune
2 Show and Tell
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Grim Tutor (I chose this one 'cuz it puts the card in your hand)
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond

Seems like a pretty standard Vintage list... hehe. I've been thinking about adding some Seething Song s or Rite of Flame s but it might be a little too much, just to have your Living Death FoW'd.I purposely didn't put a Timetwister in there 'cuz the cards in the graveyard need to stay there. I'm entirely open to criticism/ideas to accomplish turn one kills... Thanks, guys.

Edit: I know, there are more than 60 cards on the list, but this is just the basic idea of what I've come up with. Again, thoughts are welcome.

If you are worried about counters, Duress, Thoughtseize or your own FoWs can clear the way for your Living Death to resolve. You should probably also run Yawgmoth's Will (and maybe Mystical Tutor) to re-use your rituals and loti to generate more mana (see Long.dec).

Also, it's very much cheating, but you could abuse the Clone bug (if it copies a 187 creature, the effect will trigger twice) to get 20 (or 25!) damage from one Buried Alive Just make sure to search for Clone first so it comes into play last with Living Death!

somacat wrote:Also, it's very much cheating, but you could abuse the Clone bug (if it copies a 187 creature, the effect will trigger twice) to get 20 (or 25!) damage from one Buried Alive Just make sure to search for Clone first so it comes into play last with Living Death!

Hahaha... Thanks for the ideas. I'd thought about the Duress/Thoughtseize thing, the only issue'd be cutting cards from the list. I'll figure it out and repost after some testing.
Anything you're working on, somacat?

Hehe, I thought the Clone thing was funny.

Haven't built a new deck in a little while, been busy with the buglist before jatill went on holidays. I'll finish polishing off a bunch of decks soon though and upload them here once I'm done.

EDIT: Maybe Tolarian Academy for your deck as well, might help if you are having trouble generating enough mana (hehe, you're right, it looks like a type 1 deck lol).

well, i did some testing. So far, the deck's pretty clunky; if you get an early buried alive and some fast mana, game over for the opponent on turn 3-4. Otherwise, it's pretty slow. No turn 1 kills so far. I'll try the Tolarian Academy thing... we'll see.

Yeah, since your wincons take 2 cards (Buried Alive + Living Death), that cost 8 mana if played in the same turn, it's going to be a little less efficient than a Tendrils win, but IMHO it's way cooler And turn 1 wins are pretty uncommon anyway. The only 2 decks I've done it with are Grim Long and the Sneak Attack deck mentioned earlier. You have to be pretty lucky (or using debug!) to get Lotus / Rituals / Draw in Long.dck or Lotus / Sneak / Mana Vault + 2 'deals 10' creatures in SA.dck. And I've only done it a couple of times with each deck in many many games. Flash Hulk might be an easier turn 1 kill, but I haven't built that deck - I don't really like the Ravager version, I'm holding out for Kiki-Jiki! Good luck with your testing!

Thanks, buddy.
You know, I tried your Sneak Attack deck, (which was very oddly similar to my build-I never put mine up here, though-, minus the FoWs, Show and Tell s, 2 Progenitus and 1 Nicol Bolas. I used Duress instead of FoWs; 1 Volcanic Fallout, 1 Windfall and 1 Recurring Nightmare instead of Show and Tell; and 3 Angel of Despair s instead of Progenitus and Nicol Bolas.) Most of my choices were in the deck to survive the late game, but your build seems to work faster and more synergistically than mine, so I'm changing it.

Keep the deckbuilding ideas coming, though; I enjoy the challenge of squeezing the most out of our limited (but ridiculously amazing) cardlist.

Yeah I was pretty happy with the way the Sneak Attack deck came together - in my original build, I had Duress over FoW too, and was running Damnation in the Show and Tell slot. But the Damnations did practically nothing for me; so when I checked the deckbuilder for a replacement, Show and Tell stood out as perfect, and gave me 3 more blue cards to pitch to FoW. The creature base has always been the same though, I wanted to maximize the 'deal 10's, and Nicol Bolas just gives me time to draw into them (plus I've always been a fan of the most badass Elder Dragon). Other creatures I considered though were Magister Sphinx (deals 15 if it's your first creature, could gain some life in a pinch, but otherwise not that good) and Serra Avatar (but I didn't like the lack of evasion).

By the way, do you have a decent ProsBloom list? I'm having trouble making a fast and consistent build without Natural Balance and Squandered Resources...

I actually don't have one but I'll definitely give it a shot.I'll put up whatever I come up with as soon as i have an idea, man.

EDIT: I dunno, the deck seems pretty stiff and slow... I tried several approaches, but in general the only real winning scheme after testing has everything to do with getting Yawgmoth's Bargain in play with Cadaverous Bloom. Once those two cards are on the table early, the opponent is screwed. Otherwise, not having Natural Balance is not much of a tragedy in itself, but Squandered Resources is hard to replace; I tried to sub these with all the vintage mana fixers but LED's (for obvious reasons). This, however, didn't really do much.
Here's my list... The key for me most of the time were the inclusion of Zuran Orb to squeeze extra cards out of the Bargain and Heartbeat of Spring to accelerate being able to drop the Cadaverous Bloom.

It's not all that fast, but given a quick start, you'll be packing up your cards one or two turns later:

2 Bayou
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Dark Depths (Experimental. I won with it a couple of times... hehe.)

3 Prosperity
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Windfall (Amazing way to gather more cards once you've discarded a ton to Cadaverous Bloom)
1 Braingeyser
4 Meditate
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Gush (Optional)
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Grim Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Drain Life
4 Duress
2 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth
1 Storm Seeker
3 Cadaverous Bloom (I left one out to include another tutor)
2 Defense Grid
1 Zuran Orb

1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus

Due to the necessity of particular colored mana (and the inaffordability of losing life to Mana Crypt), I left Sol Ring and co. out of the deck. Other viable options are Pact of Negation and the inclusion of Dark Ritual, but this is just a skeleton for ProsBloom, and definitely could use some tweaking to make it faster since the key elements of the combo are unavailable, but so far the winning percentage has been significantly larger than the losing. Thoughts?

Hey, somacat, have you thought up any nice combos to allow a good flash hulk deck? I don't know much about it, but I had a look online at the various versions and I don't really like the look of the ravage build either (well, compared to the one using disciples and the auto-dying artifact creatures for instance). Any ideas? Or are you set on waiting for kiki to come along? (I need a deck to wean me off the sneak dragon deck, to which I am addicted!!)