Advice on my deck.."Dark Depths" and "Vampire Hexmage" combo

[Ender]

Code: Select all

;1 The Darkness
;
;User
;User E-Mail
;24/10/2009
;1
;4th Edition
;

.1844   3   Dark Depths
.1129   4   Vampire Hexmage
.55   4   Dark Ritual
.1088   3   Bloodghast
.239   18   Swamp
.609   4   Darkness
.1103   2   Gatekeeper of Malakir
.1127   2   Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
.1626   3   Priest of Gix
.259   4   Unholy Strength
.333   1   Vampiric Tutor
.62   1   Demonic Tutor
.166   1   Mox Jet
.17   1   Black Lotus
.1424   1   Lotus Petal
.327   4   Grim Tutor


Basically the deck revolves around the "Dark Depths" and "Vampire Hexmage" combo, which puts into play a 20/20 indestructible creature with flying.

But I cant beat the gauntlet challenge 1 tribal decks.

Deck has 56, so I got room for 4 cards and I can make more substitutes if you know of some cards for improvement.

I think i remember seeing a card that makes an opponent (or all players) tap 1 for each creature or it gets destroyed.. or something like that, if you know what I am referring too, then let me know.

Also, are there any black or artifact cards that with low mana cost that will give my creatures haste, because sometimes I lost just because I can not attack with that 20/20 creature and all the little creature in tribal deck out number and kill me, before I can attack.

Or maybe some other cards that can help, if you all can think of any.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[Salbei]

Code: Select all

;1 The Darkness
;
;User
;User E-Mail
;24/10/2009
;1
;4th Edition
;

.1844   3   Dark Depths
.1129   4   Vampire Hexmage
.55   4   Dark Ritual
.1088   3   Bloodghast
.239   18   Swamp
.609   4   Darkness
.1103   2   Gatekeeper of Malakir
.1127   2   Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
.1626   3   Priest of Gix
.259   4   Unholy Strength
.333   1   Vampiric Tutor
.62   1   Demonic Tutor
.166   1   Mox Jet
.17   1   Black Lotus
.1424   1   Lotus Petal
.327   4   Grim Tutor


i would cut these:
.259 4 Unholy Strength
.609 4 Darkness
.1424 1 Lotus Petal
.327 4 Grim Tutor

and add those :
4 Polluted Delta
2-4 Underground Sea (could cut Swamps for it)
1 Imperial Seal
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
0-1 Brainstorm
0-4 Duress
0-4 Thoughseize


pretty much every equipment out there will serve you better than unholy strength.
take a look at : Bonesplitter , Loxodon Warhammer (!)

Darkness seems way out of place .Unless you want to play a certain challenge with this.
a "combo" of Black Knight + Equipment will usually keep you save vs the AI.

Your manabase looks too shaky.
you might want to add a couple " Polluted Delta " + Underground Sea then you could fit in Ancestral Recall / Timewalk and maybe Brainstorm.

Lotus Petal is also a wasted slot , for "real" combo deck ok , but in this "weenie/pseudo combo" deck i don´t see any reason for including it. Land Count isn´t high enough for Mox Diamond which i would prefer.

Grim Tutor - absolutly overrated. you don´t have the 3 mana for it unless you waste a Dark Ritual for it. A single Imperial Seal would be enough next to the other 2 Tutors.

To win with this "combo" you should add "direct" discard elements . Duress Thoughtseize just to name the most popular options for this . This way you won´t run straight into Countermagic , Diabolic Edict , Swords to Plowshares etc.
(against "normal" decks)

might want to exchange Priest of Gix to a regular Black Knight , never underestimate Firststrike/Prot white . the 2/1 body for 3 doesn´t do anything at all. yay its free ... hooray - but didn´t you want to put a 20/20 into play anyway ? this doesn´t do anything noticable on the offense and does even less on the "defense" (that you need for challenges).

Bitterblossom might be worth looking at aswell (combined with Loxodon Warhammer this can be a hoser against the AI).might want to try it out if you can support the lifeloss.

like i said - first strike is really good against the AI.
4/2 black knight (bonesplitter on him) and you got at least 5 turns of safty to get your combo together.

Vampire Nighthawk is pricy (cost 3) but it is worth every mana invested into it. You should try it.
AI is scared of Deathtouch.
its relative hard to block in challenges -> flying
the lifelink added to this is going to save your butt more than once.

i like the Ob Nixilis backup plan.your landcount is slightly to low for it though.

[Ender]

Thank you. I implemented most your suggestions. gotten further than i have, damn merfolks f-ed me up lol.

So I got to keep tweakin here and there.

[aww1979]

Maybe try 4x Bayou and some sort of tutor card that can get Dark Depths, like Crop Rotation, Sylvan Scrying, or Living Wish. I'd also make the changes Salbei suggested. The grim tutor looks tempting, but against those challenge decks, I think it would end up being too slow. Also, I'd put in Demonic Consultation for sure.

I'd also scrap the Ob Nixilis, Bloodghast, and Gatekeepers, and fit in more of the Duress/Thoughtseizes, if removing the cards Salbei said wasn't enough to get 4 of each in. (I didn't count everything) Ponder might also be a good addition; I like using it as a kind of 'second brainstorm'.

Other cards I'd think about are: (if you've got room, or don't like any other suggestions given)
-Cabal Therapy (especially for the challenge decks, as you know what their deck is every time)
-Dark Confidant (he's just good :p)
-Lotus Petal/Mox Diamond (despite what Salbei says, I think those will be important to land your Hexmage that one turn sooner)
-Living Wish (though if you want to be "honest", you'd have to drop the maindeck to 3x Dark Depths and Vampire Hexmage :p)

I'd make it look something like:

4x Underground Sea
4x Bayou
4x Polluted Delta
4x black/green fetchland (forgot name)
4x Swamp

4x Dark Depths

1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Jet
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mox Diamond

4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Dark Ritual
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Demonic Consultation
4x Duress
4x Thoughtseize
4x Cabal Therapy (at least for challenge mode)

1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder

4x Living Wish (get Dark Depths or Vampire Hexmage, as needed)

If you want to be honest and not get a '5th hexmage/depths' out of your sideboard, ditch a depths and hexmage for 2x Dark Confidant or something.

BTW, I still don't think it'll beat the Tribal Challenge :p But I could be wrong...

edit: Now I'm curious, hehe. I'm going to build my suggested list and try it. I'll let you know how I do, and maybe refine the list.

edit again: Forgot about Chrome Mox. I'm going to put one of those in instead of a land.

[aww1979]

Attempt 1:
Kobolds: One turn too slow. I had Marit Lage in play but died the turn before I could attack.

Attempt 2:
Kobolds: Horrible draw. Lost again.

Attempt 3:
Kobolds: turn 3 win
Zombies: Got owned.

Attempt 4:
Kobolds: got owned

Attempt 5:
Kobolds: turn 3 win
Zombies: turn 3 win
Faeries: A bit longer game, but even Marit Lage in play failed due to bitterblossom. This matchup is going to be really hard.

Removed Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Brainstorm and Ponder for 4x Dark Confidant.

Attempt 6:
Kobolds: Turn 3 win
Zombies: This one was a beauty, though a total fluke. Opening hand was 2x Thoughtseize, Time Walk, Black Lotus, Underground Sea, Swamp, Dark Ritual. I played Time Walk and sacced Lotus to Thoughtseize twice. The extra turn drew me a Vampire Hexmage. AI played swamp and pass. Then I topdecked a Dark Depths!
Faeries: Lost again

Removed 1x Thoughtseize, 1x Cabal Therapy for 2x Echoing Truth

Attempt 7:
Kobolds: win
Zombies: win
Faeries: Very close, but lost to Control Magic on Marit Lage.

Attempt 8:
Kobolds: Won the game with 1 life left
Zombies: win
Faeries: First turn Mox, land, duress/thoughtseize Counterspell and Wasp Lancer. Second turn Living Wish for Vampire Hexmage. Third turn Depths (opening hand), Marit Lage, Imperial Seal for Echoing Truth. Turn 4 bounce tokens, attack FTW.
Kithkin: win
Merfolk: lost to mana flood

Attempt 9:
Kobolds: win
Zombies: win
Faeries: Would have won but AI topdecked a Scion of Oona on the crucial turn.

Attempt 10:
Kobolds: Perfect hand. Turn 1 Black Lotus, Demonic Consultation for Dark Depths; play dark depths and hexmage. Turn 2 win.
Zombies: Manascrewed; no chance.

Attempt 11:
Kobolds: win
Zombies: win
Faeries: I should have lost, but AI was too stupid to play its lands, which Thoughtseize showed me he had, so I won.
Kithkin: win
Merfolk: win
Rats: win (opened with cabal therapy on rats :p)
Elves: Turn 1 thoughtseize showed me a horrible AI hand, made worse by the fact he didn't want to play land again, though he would have lost anyway in this case. Turn 4 win.
Goblins: win
Soldiers: Ouch! Forgot about this one. Turn 3 loss. Not even turn 2 Demonic Tutor for Echoing Truth saved me, because AI dropped a Crusade, so I never got to cast it.

Removed 1x Duress, 3x Swamp, 4x Dark Confidant for 2x more Echoing Truth, 4x Maelstrom Pulse, Mox Sapphire, Mox Emerald

Attempt 12:
Kobolds: win
Zombies: 3 Vampire hexmages (and no dark depths) tricked the AI into being stupid and not attacking for a couple turns; he died to his own graveborn muse and carnophages.
Faeries: Would've won, but my stupidity naming the wrong card with Cabal Therapy lost it. (Forgot what I'd seen before)

Attempt 13:
Kobolds: win
Zombies: win
Faeries: win; I had the combo in hand and duress showed me AI had 2 land and nothing cheaper than 3
Kithkin: win
Merfolk: no chance; 1st turn Cabal Therapy showed me a perfect AI hand, plus my named card (Lord of Atlantis) wasn't there. I mulled to 6, since I had no land.

That should give a rough idea of how the deck can do. You'll have to get lucky a few times, particularly on Soldiers, but I think it can be done if you keep at it.

[jatill]

I was trying a similar deck in my newest challenge, Sliver Nation, which is basically a harder Tribal Trials. Even though I forgot about Living Wish (I always do somehow...), the keys to the deck are 4x Innocent Blood and 4x Path to Exile. That first turn creature just has to die. After that you play a "fair" game of Magic and combo them out on turn 3 You could easily take out 8 of the discard spells, since I only find them useful against the Force of Will decks.

[240sxforever]

I have been having good luck with this:


Dark Depths

.1844 4 Dark Depths
.1129 4 Vampire Hexmage
.609 4 Darkness
.62 1 Demonic Tutor
.1484 4 Diabolic Edict
.331 1 Imperial Seal
.1722 4 Reanimate
.55 4 Dark Ritual
.17 1 Black Lotus
.398 3 Bazaar of Baghdad
.1890 1 Demonic Consultation
.327 3 Grim Tutor
.1959 4 Verdant Catacombs
.12 4 Bayou
.1834 2 Misty Rainforest
.390 4 Crop Rotation
.88 4 Fog
.344 4 Worldly Tutor
.1733 4 Tarmogoyf

more than fast enough for most match ups, with proper mulligans, i think it is missing 2x rancor, but have not had time to test them.

[Salbei]

.1129 4 Vampire Hexmage
.1844 2 Dark Depths
.62 1 Demonic Tutor
.333 1 Vampiric Tutor
.1 1 Ancestral Recall
.249 1 Time Walk
.17 1 Black Lotus
.457 4 Mox Diamond
.165 1 Mox Emerald
.166 1 Mox Jet
.167 1 Mox Pearl
.168 1 Mox Ruby
.169 1 Mox Sapphire
.1351 1 Tinker
.1308 1 Platinum Angel
.499 1 Brainstorm
.312 1 Ponder
.390 4 Crop Rotation
.317 1 Tolarian Academy
.252 4 Tropical Island
.12 4 Bayou
.1834 4 Misty Rainforest
.1473 4 Windswept Heath
.230 1 Sol Ring
.352 1 Mystical Tutor
.1846 4 Duress
.331 1 Imperial Seal
.1975 4 Propaganda
.806 4 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

this is my list . beat the challenge at the first attempt with this (including a insane lucky turn1 kill at game 8^^ - play dark depths ,play black lotus , play mox , sac lotus for BBB,play hexmage,use hexmage,tap mox for mana, play timewalk.)

abusing the AI flaws to the max like that. tabernacle + propaganda literally wins the game on its own. doesn´t really matter how you bring the opponent to 0 after that .

tabernacle on turn 1/2 or at least propaganda shutting down pretty much every deck , the now unrestricted crop rotation makes you pretty much play 8 of them and can be used to fetch dark depths aswell (don´t forget you can sac tropical island into fetchland(thin out) into bayou when you need the 2nd black mana for the hexmage.
9 moxen + black lotus should make up for the tempo loss of playing turn1 tabernacle and also help to pump out a turn1/2 propaganda aswell.
won the last game by "hardcasting" dark depths cause i didn´t draw a vampire.

the game against bitterblossom the AI killed itself with the bitterblossom.was kinda scared after he used control magic on marrit lage^^ , he could have won if he just sacced the other creatures and attack with marrit lage (to pay for propaganda), was the only close matchup.

just make sure you got the play the hexmage AFTER you got dark depths in play - so eventual removal spells don´t hurt you.

tinker / platinum angel is for the worst case scenario where you would loose during the next turn. just used it once at the beginning of game 6 . first turn lotus mox into tinker -> angel.

Crop Rotation is the most valuable card here. giving you the flexibility you need.
it can thin out your library (sac land into fetchland and use fetchland for a dual).
can fetch you dark depths for the win , or Tabernacle early.

mulligans:
you shouldn´t have to take many mulligans with this. either you got a tabernacle , a Crop Rotation or a one mana tutor for it on your starting hand .
just had to take only 1 mulligan when i got just 2 mox diamonds on my starting hand.

when you see that you can play a propaganda on turn 1/2 then you can keep the hand aswell.

try to play duress before you play the hexmage against decks with force of will - or you will most likly have to "hardcast" marrit lage.

[aww1979]

Looks good The only complaint I have is that it no longer 'feels' like a combo deck, but more like some abusive T1 thing that just happens to have Dark Depths as a kill condition :p Still, it should work just fine, though, and won't have the problems my list did with soldiers or bitterblossom, which were the two of the ten that caused mine serious problems.

[Ender]

nice improvements!



finally beat it. thanks for the help.

[Salbei]

just tried it at the sliver challenger (the new one-> challenge3) and won at the third attempt with this aswell.

force of will /daze ruined my day a couple times.

kinda feels like cheating

[Stroggoii]

This is one of the best decks that can be made, however FUCK MEDDLING MAGE!!!!

I just cant get past that guy he always locks up the cards I'm to draw and keeps me mana-screwed without the posibility of playing ANYTHING.