Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by Tepa » 27 Jan 2011, 20:52
I discovered that apparently decks w/ a minimum of 40 cards are legal for some challenges, including Shandalar 2.0 (haven't tested this on all of them).
So, for that challenge, I used a deck that combined Show and Tell and Oath with Emrakul and Platinum Angel, and some acceleration. The added consistency helps a lot, I think it took me 2 or 3 tries to beat it.
So, for that challenge, I used a deck that combined Show and Tell and Oath with Emrakul and Platinum Angel, and some acceleration. The added consistency helps a lot, I think it took me 2 or 3 tries to beat it.
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by aww1979 » 27 Jan 2011, 21:15
With a 40 card deck, most of the challenges should be REALLY easy, so I'll try that whenever possible from now on.
Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by Cognis » 27 Jan 2011, 21:19
Never thought about it, I'm going for shandalar 2.0 as we speak.
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by aww1979 » 28 Jan 2011, 00:54
Shrunk the 'boring angel' deck to 40 cards and beat shandalar 2.0 on the second attempt with it, but my stupid video program locked up, so I don't have a recording for it. I won't bother trying to do shandalar 2.0 (or the banned challenge) again to get a successful run unless someone wants the video of a successful run of one of those.
Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by aww1979 » 28 Jan 2011, 01:46
Set #1
Challenge #7: 5:1
The enemy decks are selected at random each time, and the enemy gets no special advantage.
edit: I might not actually do this one, since jatill plans to replace it. Also, unless I want to screw around with Power Struggle, it will require using Donate, which is locked by Master Warlock. Fortunately, Master Warlock is a very easy challenge to beat.
edit: (Feb 8, 2011) Jatill has as of today removed the 5:1 challenge completely and replaced it with something called Planeswalker Decimation. This challenge is therefore no longer available unless you use an older version.
Challenge #7: 5:1
The enemy decks are selected at random each time, and the enemy gets no special advantage.
- The 11 rounds and the simplest solution to each | Open
edit: I might not actually do this one, since jatill plans to replace it. Also, unless I want to screw around with Power Struggle, it will require using Donate, which is locked by Master Warlock. Fortunately, Master Warlock is a very easy challenge to beat.
edit: (Feb 8, 2011) Jatill has as of today removed the 5:1 challenge completely and replaced it with something called Planeswalker Decimation. This challenge is therefore no longer available unless you use an older version.
Last edited by aww1979 on 09 Feb 2011, 08:06, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by aww1979 » 28 Jan 2011, 06:36
Set #1
Challenge #8: Magic: The Puzzling
Jatill has asked that the solutions to this challenge not be posted. However, I will give you the problems so that you can plan ahead if you are stumped on an earlier round.
The 'personal rating' thing is purely subjective; it's merely based on how long it took me to solve the challenge, so don't take it too seriously. Easy = Saw solution right away, Medium = Spent minutes thinking, Hard = Took 30-60 minutes to solve, Very Hard = Hours of thinking, Extremely Hard = Days of thinking
Some puzzles have more than one solution. In particular, #s 4,5,8, and 10 I know of multiple solutions, though for 4 and 5 it's so close as to be the same idea. For 8 and 10, doctormac found completely different solutions to the ones jatill and I used. I suspect that #s 1 and 2 have multiple solutions as well, but I never bothered to look for them.
edit: Found a unique solution for puzzle #4 that I didn't know about before, so that one has two totally different ways of solving it. (the two solutions I knew before differed by only one card from each other, but this new one has 3 different cards)
Challenge #8: Magic: The Puzzling
Jatill has asked that the solutions to this challenge not be posted. However, I will give you the problems so that you can plan ahead if you are stumped on an earlier round.
- The 10 Puzzles | Open
The 'personal rating' thing is purely subjective; it's merely based on how long it took me to solve the challenge, so don't take it too seriously. Easy = Saw solution right away, Medium = Spent minutes thinking, Hard = Took 30-60 minutes to solve, Very Hard = Hours of thinking, Extremely Hard = Days of thinking
Some puzzles have more than one solution. In particular, #s 4,5,8, and 10 I know of multiple solutions, though for 4 and 5 it's so close as to be the same idea. For 8 and 10, doctormac found completely different solutions to the ones jatill and I used. I suspect that #s 1 and 2 have multiple solutions as well, but I never bothered to look for them.
edit: Found a unique solution for puzzle #4 that I didn't know about before, so that one has two totally different ways of solving it. (the two solutions I knew before differed by only one card from each other, but this new one has 3 different cards)
Last edited by aww1979 on 30 Jan 2011, 06:20, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by aww1979 » 28 Jan 2011, 07:09
Set #1
Challenge #9: That's Not My Deck!
Restrictions: Only lands from Beta are allowed
In this challenge, some of the cards in your deck will be randomly swapped with other cards of the same casting cost without your knowledge. (until you draw it or look through your library for some reason) For example, if Maelstrom Pulse is in your deck, that spell costs 1BG, and sometimes you might draw a Pernicious Deed instead, which also costs 1BG. A card like Ajani Vengeant that, as of this post, is the only coded card costing 2RW, will never change, whereas a card with a very common casting cost like R or WW or (3) could change into any of a dozen or more cards. (I don't know if you can end up with multiple copies of something like Ancestral Recall if you include lots of U casting cost cards)
Also note that it is during your first upkeep that the swaps will take place, so the cards you see before you take your turn will not necessarily be the ones you play with. (your lands will never change, though) Also, if you mulligan, after your upkeep, your hand will change, and you will end up at seven cards again, so mulliganing is a fairly safe thing to do on this challenge.
The enemy decks are selected at random from the usual challenge mode playdecks, and life totals are always 20.
I will use the same deck I beat this challenge originally with, since it was both fun to play and fairly strong as well.
Run #1: (crash) Game locked up on round 6. It was a breeze getting that far. Round 6 was slow due to not getting a 3rd land drop until about turn 12, but fortunately I was against the fog deck, or I'd have been killed long before that.
Run #2: (loss) Got destroyed in game 1. I had only two lands to start with. AI went turn 1 island, arcbound worker, turn 2 mox mishra's workshop lodestone golem, turn 3 seat of the synod, master of etherium, and another arcbound worker. I was dead on turn 4 without casting a spell.
Run #3: (loss) Lost on round 2 due to a lack of white mana. I died on turn 8, never having missed a land drop, but having six spells in hand needing white mana. The few spells I was able to cast were not enough against the WRG zoo deck. (the one that was added as a tournament runner-up prize)
Run #4: (loss) Owned everything until round 9, when I was destroyed by the affinity deck, due to not drawing my 3rd land until turn 5. By then the AI had 21 power worth of attackers on the board.
Run #5: (loss) Got completely wtfpwned by the elf deck on round 1, as Eladamri gave everything forestwalk and all I ever got out were Trygon Predators, which were no match ooutracing 3/3 and then 4/4 forestwalking elves pumped by lords.
Run #6: (win) Had some pretty close games in this run, but the deck came through for me. The toughest matchups in this run were slivers (seen THREE times!) and the black/blue artifact deck, who had me scared with two Su-Chi by turn 3, but I got a lucky Maelstrom Pulse off on them. Slivers (due to counterspells and flying and moxes), Elves (due to forestwalk) and affinity (due to my deck having only one playable card before turn 3) were the worst matchups, but I didn't see them during this run. One of the sliver matchups was extremely funny because I thought I was going to get my ass kicked for sure, and then I realized that my two Necrotic Sliver in hand (swapped from Vindicate) could block the flying shrouded slivers coming my way :p They held the fort until I stabilized and won. By some miracle, CamStudio didn't crash this time, so I have the video for it as well.
http://uploading.com/files/maeam579/thatsnotmydeck.avi/
Challenge #9: That's Not My Deck!
Restrictions: Only lands from Beta are allowed
In this challenge, some of the cards in your deck will be randomly swapped with other cards of the same casting cost without your knowledge. (until you draw it or look through your library for some reason) For example, if Maelstrom Pulse is in your deck, that spell costs 1BG, and sometimes you might draw a Pernicious Deed instead, which also costs 1BG. A card like Ajani Vengeant that, as of this post, is the only coded card costing 2RW, will never change, whereas a card with a very common casting cost like R or WW or (3) could change into any of a dozen or more cards. (I don't know if you can end up with multiple copies of something like Ancestral Recall if you include lots of U casting cost cards)
Also note that it is during your first upkeep that the swaps will take place, so the cards you see before you take your turn will not necessarily be the ones you play with. (your lands will never change, though) Also, if you mulligan, after your upkeep, your hand will change, and you will end up at seven cards again, so mulliganing is a fairly safe thing to do on this challenge.
The enemy decks are selected at random from the usual challenge mode playdecks, and life totals are always 20.
I will use the same deck I beat this challenge originally with, since it was both fun to play and fairly strong as well.
- Rainbow Bolas deck | Open
- Possible swap cards for the cards in my deck (as of Jan. 28, 2011) | Open
Run #1: (crash) Game locked up on round 6. It was a breeze getting that far. Round 6 was slow due to not getting a 3rd land drop until about turn 12, but fortunately I was against the fog deck, or I'd have been killed long before that.
Run #2: (loss) Got destroyed in game 1. I had only two lands to start with. AI went turn 1 island, arcbound worker, turn 2 mox mishra's workshop lodestone golem, turn 3 seat of the synod, master of etherium, and another arcbound worker. I was dead on turn 4 without casting a spell.
Run #3: (loss) Lost on round 2 due to a lack of white mana. I died on turn 8, never having missed a land drop, but having six spells in hand needing white mana. The few spells I was able to cast were not enough against the WRG zoo deck. (the one that was added as a tournament runner-up prize)
Run #4: (loss) Owned everything until round 9, when I was destroyed by the affinity deck, due to not drawing my 3rd land until turn 5. By then the AI had 21 power worth of attackers on the board.
Run #5: (loss) Got completely wtfpwned by the elf deck on round 1, as Eladamri gave everything forestwalk and all I ever got out were Trygon Predators, which were no match ooutracing 3/3 and then 4/4 forestwalking elves pumped by lords.
Run #6: (win) Had some pretty close games in this run, but the deck came through for me. The toughest matchups in this run were slivers (seen THREE times!) and the black/blue artifact deck, who had me scared with two Su-Chi by turn 3, but I got a lucky Maelstrom Pulse off on them. Slivers (due to counterspells and flying and moxes), Elves (due to forestwalk) and affinity (due to my deck having only one playable card before turn 3) were the worst matchups, but I didn't see them during this run. One of the sliver matchups was extremely funny because I thought I was going to get my ass kicked for sure, and then I realized that my two Necrotic Sliver in hand (swapped from Vindicate) could block the flying shrouded slivers coming my way :p They held the fort until I stabilized and won. By some miracle, CamStudio didn't crash this time, so I have the video for it as well.
http://uploading.com/files/maeam579/thatsnotmydeck.avi/
Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by aww1979 » 29 Jan 2011, 01:29
Challenge Set #1 Personal ratings:
Going along with what Jatill did in his thread about challenges, I'll list the Attempts, Difficulty, Luck Factor, and Frustration Factor that I consider the challenges to be. My numbers may be slightly different than what jatill thinks, but nobody agrees on everything :p (ratings out of 10)
1) Tribal Trials
Attempts: 1 (this is about what I expected)
Difficulty: 3 (this is one of the easier challenges, but it isn't the easiest. I'd rate it as 'easy')
Luck Factor: 2 (there isn't too much luck in this challenge, but occasionally you can get surprised or fail to draw removal for some of the bigger creatures like Sliver Queen, or have a greater than expected swarm due to a good AI draw, but it's no more luck than a standard game of magic)
Frustration Factor: 2 (this challenge is slightly frustrating because the last two rounds have by far the most dangerous creatures in play to start, so you might get to round 9 or 10 and then get owned by Captain of the Watch or Sliver Queen if you don't get a quick start)
2) Vanguard Vengeance
Attempts: 1 (I kept playing trying to get a successful video capture)
Difficulty: 1 (This is one of the easiest challenges in the game, and I rate it 'very easy'.)
Luck Factor: 6 (The Momir round is mostly luck; sometimes you can get Baneslayer Angel, other days you get Countryside Crusher and lose during your next upkeep, or get a creature like Force of Nature without GGGG in play. Also, rounds 1 and 10 have luck in them, depending on what the Chaos Orb Avatar hands out.
Frustration Factor: 3 (the only rounds you are likely to lose on are 3 and 10, so it can be somewhat frustrating to get wiped on round 10 due to a terrible deck. Losing on momir round 3 isn't so bad, since you don't lose much progress)
3) Chipping Away
Attempts: 1 (I'd expect 2-3 runs is more typical, as the last few rounds can be very dangerous)
Difficulty: 5 (due to the low life of the later rounds, particularly round 9, where the AI's deck is fixed to have white weenies and shadow creatures, I'd rate this challenge as a 'medium')
Luck Factor: 5 (if you get a poor hand in the later rounds, it can be very hard to make a comeback)
Frustration Factor: 2 (this one doesn't have anything to make it really frustrating beyond the usual)
4) Onslaught
Attempts: 3 (Probably about typical; I'd expect 1-5 attempts given a tendrils or dredge deck or similar here)
Difficulty: 7 (I'd rate this one as 'hard', especially the Meddling Mage round, since it has to deal with many different kinds of 'onslaughts'.)
Luck Factor: 5 (the higher luck rating is due to the Meddling Mage round; sometimes, your bombs all get named and you are screwed)
Frustration Factor: 6 (again, mostly because of the meddling mage round)
5) Shandalar 2.0
Attempts: 15 (this one is not easy, though a dredge deck would probably do better if it doesn't crash for you)
Difficulty: 9 (the first five rounds and 9/10 are the hardest, 6-8 are pretty easy)
Luck Factor: 7 (primarily due to rounds 9/10, as in round 9 you need to draw a good hand that doesn't rely on moxes/nonbasic lands, and in 10 because you need a honden answer or turn one kill in your opening hand AND basically need to go first)
Frustration Factor: 9 (primarily due to round 10, but also because the earlier rounds are also tough)
6) BANNED!
Attempts: 2 (no video though)
Difficulty: 4 (I'd rate it as easy-medium, since in order to beat the 'banned' part, many deck archetypes that breeze through most challenges are not possible here)
Luck Factor: 4 (sometimes you draw lots of banned cards and get stuck unable to play, especially during the last round where you cannot play land)
Frustration Factor: 6 (mostly because of the last round where you cannot play land and will need moxes or something to cast)
7)
Planeswalker Decimation
Attempts = 4(this will be much higher once planeswalker AI is improved)
Difficulty = 6 (this will be 9-10 once planeswalker AI is improved)
Luck Factor = 8 (this is high because the deck you face might mesh really well with the planeswalkers on that particular round, and some games the AI might use its planeswalkers a lot, while other times it might use them hardly at all, or never)
Frustration Factor: 8 (this was fairly low for me, but again, once planeswalker AI is improved, this will be very high, because some of the rounds, particularly 6 and later, will be extremely difficult, so I will rate it on what it would be if the planeswalkers had been used on more than 10% of the turns)
Magic: The Puzzling
Attempts: n/a (doesn't really apply to the nature of this challenge)
Difficulty: 7 (but individual puzzles range from 1-10)
Luck Factor: 0 (it's all skill! :p)
Frustration Factor: 5 (sometimes you can sit there for hours or days stuck on one particular puzzle. Also, if you screw up, you have to do all the previous puzzles to get back to the one you are trying to beat)
9) That's Not My Deck
Attempts: 6 (I'm surprised it took me this many)
Difficulty: 5 (it's about medium challenge)
Luck Factor: 9 (due to the swapping of cards, this challenge has probably the highest luck factor of any challenge)
Frustration Factor: 5 (more if you have common casting cost cards... I mean, which would you rather draw, Wurmcoil Engine or Obsianus Golem?)
Going along with what Jatill did in his thread about challenges, I'll list the Attempts, Difficulty, Luck Factor, and Frustration Factor that I consider the challenges to be. My numbers may be slightly different than what jatill thinks, but nobody agrees on everything :p (ratings out of 10)
1) Tribal Trials
Attempts: 1 (this is about what I expected)
Difficulty: 3 (this is one of the easier challenges, but it isn't the easiest. I'd rate it as 'easy')
Luck Factor: 2 (there isn't too much luck in this challenge, but occasionally you can get surprised or fail to draw removal for some of the bigger creatures like Sliver Queen, or have a greater than expected swarm due to a good AI draw, but it's no more luck than a standard game of magic)
Frustration Factor: 2 (this challenge is slightly frustrating because the last two rounds have by far the most dangerous creatures in play to start, so you might get to round 9 or 10 and then get owned by Captain of the Watch or Sliver Queen if you don't get a quick start)
2) Vanguard Vengeance
Attempts: 1 (I kept playing trying to get a successful video capture)
Difficulty: 1 (This is one of the easiest challenges in the game, and I rate it 'very easy'.)
Luck Factor: 6 (The Momir round is mostly luck; sometimes you can get Baneslayer Angel, other days you get Countryside Crusher and lose during your next upkeep, or get a creature like Force of Nature without GGGG in play. Also, rounds 1 and 10 have luck in them, depending on what the Chaos Orb Avatar hands out.
Frustration Factor: 3 (the only rounds you are likely to lose on are 3 and 10, so it can be somewhat frustrating to get wiped on round 10 due to a terrible deck. Losing on momir round 3 isn't so bad, since you don't lose much progress)
3) Chipping Away
Attempts: 1 (I'd expect 2-3 runs is more typical, as the last few rounds can be very dangerous)
Difficulty: 5 (due to the low life of the later rounds, particularly round 9, where the AI's deck is fixed to have white weenies and shadow creatures, I'd rate this challenge as a 'medium')
Luck Factor: 5 (if you get a poor hand in the later rounds, it can be very hard to make a comeback)
Frustration Factor: 2 (this one doesn't have anything to make it really frustrating beyond the usual)
4) Onslaught
Attempts: 3 (Probably about typical; I'd expect 1-5 attempts given a tendrils or dredge deck or similar here)
Difficulty: 7 (I'd rate this one as 'hard', especially the Meddling Mage round, since it has to deal with many different kinds of 'onslaughts'.)
Luck Factor: 5 (the higher luck rating is due to the Meddling Mage round; sometimes, your bombs all get named and you are screwed)
Frustration Factor: 6 (again, mostly because of the meddling mage round)
5) Shandalar 2.0
Attempts: 15 (this one is not easy, though a dredge deck would probably do better if it doesn't crash for you)
Difficulty: 9 (the first five rounds and 9/10 are the hardest, 6-8 are pretty easy)
Luck Factor: 7 (primarily due to rounds 9/10, as in round 9 you need to draw a good hand that doesn't rely on moxes/nonbasic lands, and in 10 because you need a honden answer or turn one kill in your opening hand AND basically need to go first)
Frustration Factor: 9 (primarily due to round 10, but also because the earlier rounds are also tough)
6) BANNED!
Attempts: 2 (no video though)
Difficulty: 4 (I'd rate it as easy-medium, since in order to beat the 'banned' part, many deck archetypes that breeze through most challenges are not possible here)
Luck Factor: 4 (sometimes you draw lots of banned cards and get stuck unable to play, especially during the last round where you cannot play land)
Frustration Factor: 6 (mostly because of the last round where you cannot play land and will need moxes or something to cast)
7)
- 5:1 Odds (obsolete; you need an older version to play this one) | Open
Planeswalker Decimation
Attempts = 4(this will be much higher once planeswalker AI is improved)
Difficulty = 6 (this will be 9-10 once planeswalker AI is improved)
Luck Factor = 8 (this is high because the deck you face might mesh really well with the planeswalkers on that particular round, and some games the AI might use its planeswalkers a lot, while other times it might use them hardly at all, or never)
Frustration Factor: 8 (this was fairly low for me, but again, once planeswalker AI is improved, this will be very high, because some of the rounds, particularly 6 and later, will be extremely difficult, so I will rate it on what it would be if the planeswalkers had been used on more than 10% of the turns)
Magic: The PuzzlingAttempts: n/a (doesn't really apply to the nature of this challenge)
Difficulty: 7 (but individual puzzles range from 1-10)
Luck Factor: 0 (it's all skill! :p)
Frustration Factor: 5 (sometimes you can sit there for hours or days stuck on one particular puzzle. Also, if you screw up, you have to do all the previous puzzles to get back to the one you are trying to beat)
9) That's Not My Deck
Attempts: 6 (I'm surprised it took me this many)
Difficulty: 5 (it's about medium challenge)
Luck Factor: 9 (due to the swapping of cards, this challenge has probably the highest luck factor of any challenge)
Frustration Factor: 5 (more if you have common casting cost cards... I mean, which would you rather draw, Wurmcoil Engine or Obsianus Golem?)
Last edited by aww1979 on 16 Feb 2011, 11:39, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by aww1979 » 30 Jan 2011, 06:18
Set #2
Challenge #1: Super Mulligan
(You: start life 24, AI start life 20. Yes, 24; jatill had mercy)
This is easily one of the most difficult challenges of all. You start with a zero card hand, and otherwise play normally against a random gauntlet of 10 challenge mode decks.
However, there is a trick to this challenge to make it (slightly) easier...
When you start the match, you will get dealt a hand of seven cards as usual, and get to mulligan if desired. When your upkeep comes along, your hand will be reduced to 0 cards. However, the cards you had in hand -will be the cards placed back on top of your library.- This means that you know what your first several draws are, and can mulligan appropriately, hoping to draw something you can use.
Another trick for this challenge is that you should ALWAYS select 'draw first'.
Given the nature of this strategy, you need something very fast that requires very few actual cards to pull off. I recommend a dredge deck, but since that seems to lock up my computer, the next best deck is an Oath deck.
Sadly, I tried to use a 40 card deck but it was disallowed.
The deck I built for this challenge:
Just keep mulliganing until you see that you can get an Oath on turn 2 or 3. If you can't get it that early, you've almost certainly lost. If you mulligan down to too few cards, play it anyway. You won't know what you are drawing into, but you might get lucky. If you have it, use Serum Powder. If you can run dredge without freezing your computer, use that deck instead, and just mulligan until you see bazaar of baghdad in your first few cards.
Run #1: (loss) Lost on round 1 to the elf deck. Never got to cast Oath.
Run #2: (loss) Beat the monored vise/winter orb deck on round 1 easily, beat the sliver deck on round 2 with a miracle topdeck of Oath of Druids in and cast it by saccing Geothermal Crevice, my only land in play, but then lost on round 3 due to the flip side of the saclands, where because they come into play tapped, I was one turn too slow. (and would have won otherwise, but wouldn't have advanced past round 2 had they all been forests, so I'm not sure whether I should keep the saclands or use all forests)
Run #3: (loss) Beat the fog deck easily and then beat slivers because it got a slow start, then lost to the WRG weenie deck without seeing Oath at all.
Switching to the dredge deck I used in previous challenges:
Run #4: (loss) Made it to round 3, but got killed by the affinity deck. It had 25 power worth of creatures on turn 4.
Run #5: (bug) Made it to round 5 and then got stuck when I used a bazaar, discarded the two cards, and the program wanted me to discard a third card, which I did not have. (I think this happened because U used Unmask right before, and it thought I had the card I pitched to it) I also had some issues in a few games where sacrificed Nacromoebas to Dread Return did not go to the graveyard right away as they should have, but it never impacted any game results. The games were going slowly, but not nearly as bad as they had been in shandalar 2.0, where they were unplayable for me.
Changed the dredge deck slightly, as I think Unmask is bugged slightly in that it doesn't calculate hand size correctly after casting, so I removed them in place of more petrified fields, a platinum angel, and a squee. Also removed 4x Pact of Negation, which I never used once, for 4x Nether Shadow. (Dunno how I missed using those)
Run #6: (lockup) froze on game 1 when I attacked for the win
Run #7: (loss) Never got a bazaar, lost game 1.
Run #8: (loss) Mulliganed to 0 on round 2, then didn't draw a bazaar until my last turn, when it was too late.
Run #9: (loss) Monored direct damage was so bad in game 1 that I beat it without getting a bazaar all game :p Lost game 2 because the AI cheated by imprinting Lodestone Golem onto Chrome Mox, letting it cast two Cathodion Golem that I couldn't handle.
Run #10: (lockup) Got all the way to round 7, then my game locked up on the final attack.
Run #11: (loss) Got owned on round 1 by the white weenie shadow deck. A turn 4 bazaar was too late.
Run #12: (loss) Lost to slivers on round 3
Run #13: (lockup) Had to concede because Bazaar wanted me to discard a card when I had nothing in hand. Fortunately, only was on round 2.
Run #14: (loss) Lost on round 2 to elves, never got a bazaar.
Changed the deck a bit again to include crop rotation:
Took out the contagions and petrified fields for bayous and crop rotations. I have used the field once in 15 runs, and contagion is hard to use when you have no hand (same with unmask) so I just got rid of it.
Run #15: (loss) Lost on round 1. Turn 4 bazaar via crop of rotation is no match for relentless rats with 2 moxes by turn 2.
Run #16: (loss) Lost on round 5 against the spawnwrithe deck; a turn 4 bazaar was just that bit too late. One turn earlier and I'd have been fine.
I'm going to take a break from this challenge for now and work on the next ones.
edit: (Feb 8, 2011) As of this date, jatill has made this challenge easier. Your starting hand is now TWO cards instead of ZERO cards. I will try to beat it with the old version a few more times, then switch.
Run #17: (still using dredge w/crop rotation since it seems to work well) (loss) Got pwned on round 3 by the affinity deck.
Run #18: (loss) Lost on round 1 to the black/green tournament runner-up deck when my Dryad Arbor got hit with Shriekmaw and I had no access to green mana for Crop Rotation and no bazaar in sight.
Run #19: (loss) Lost on round 2 to the black/blue artifact deck. I had a turn 1 Bazaar, but AI had a turn 2 Wasteland and knew what to do with it
Then it Tinkered for Inkwell Leviathan on turn 4...
Run #20: (loss) Lost on round 5 to the zombie deck. Turn 4 bazaar was too slow... I shouldn't have kept that, but I did.
Run #21: (loss) Lost on round 4 to the WRG zoo deck, as I mulliganed to zero without a bazaar and never saw one.
Without Serum Powder, this is EXTREMELY hard, so I am going to install the new version of this challenge, and play where I can keep 2 cards.
It turns out that the two cards you keep in hand are the BOTTOM two cards in your hand, so plan accordingly. In the earlier example, your hand would be Great Wall and Adventurer's Guildhouse, and your top card in library would be Wood Elemental. Also, if you take mulligans, you will still end up with a starting base hand of two cards, whichever two were the last two in hand. (or unknown ones off the top if you mulligan to 1 or less)
Run #22: (run #1 under the new 2-card super mulligan) (win) Well... mostly; I got a video of the game crashing during the winning attack of round 10, and by damn, that will have to be good enough! :p
It's absolutely amazing how much more consistent the deck is when you get those two cards, because you don't have to throw as many hands away that have bazaars that are too deep in the library. It would be even better if you have Street Wraith or Serum Powder unlocked. I was only able to beat the 0-card super mulligan by including those two cards in dredge back when this challenge was introduced.
http://uploading.com/files/b7mebcce/supermulligan.avi/
Challenge #1: Super Mulligan
(You: start life 24, AI start life 20. Yes, 24; jatill had mercy)
This is easily one of the most difficult challenges of all. You start with a zero card hand, and otherwise play normally against a random gauntlet of 10 challenge mode decks.
However, there is a trick to this challenge to make it (slightly) easier...
When you start the match, you will get dealt a hand of seven cards as usual, and get to mulligan if desired. When your upkeep comes along, your hand will be reduced to 0 cards. However, the cards you had in hand -will be the cards placed back on top of your library.- This means that you know what your first several draws are, and can mulligan appropriately, hoping to draw something you can use.
- example of this | Open
Another trick for this challenge is that you should ALWAYS select 'draw first'.
- example of why | Open
Given the nature of this strategy, you need something very fast that requires very few actual cards to pull off. I recommend a dredge deck, but since that seems to lock up my computer, the next best deck is an Oath deck.
Sadly, I tried to use a 40 card deck but it was disallowed.
The deck I built for this challenge:
- Gayest Oath Deck EVER | Open
Just keep mulliganing until you see that you can get an Oath on turn 2 or 3. If you can't get it that early, you've almost certainly lost. If you mulligan down to too few cards, play it anyway. You won't know what you are drawing into, but you might get lucky. If you have it, use Serum Powder. If you can run dredge without freezing your computer, use that deck instead, and just mulligan until you see bazaar of baghdad in your first few cards.
Run #1: (loss) Lost on round 1 to the elf deck. Never got to cast Oath.
Run #2: (loss) Beat the monored vise/winter orb deck on round 1 easily, beat the sliver deck on round 2 with a miracle topdeck of Oath of Druids in and cast it by saccing Geothermal Crevice, my only land in play, but then lost on round 3 due to the flip side of the saclands, where because they come into play tapped, I was one turn too slow. (and would have won otherwise, but wouldn't have advanced past round 2 had they all been forests, so I'm not sure whether I should keep the saclands or use all forests)
Run #3: (loss) Beat the fog deck easily and then beat slivers because it got a slow start, then lost to the WRG weenie deck without seeing Oath at all.
Switching to the dredge deck I used in previous challenges:
Run #4: (loss) Made it to round 3, but got killed by the affinity deck. It had 25 power worth of creatures on turn 4.
Run #5: (bug) Made it to round 5 and then got stuck when I used a bazaar, discarded the two cards, and the program wanted me to discard a third card, which I did not have. (I think this happened because U used Unmask right before, and it thought I had the card I pitched to it) I also had some issues in a few games where sacrificed Nacromoebas to Dread Return did not go to the graveyard right away as they should have, but it never impacted any game results. The games were going slowly, but not nearly as bad as they had been in shandalar 2.0, where they were unplayable for me.
Changed the dredge deck slightly, as I think Unmask is bugged slightly in that it doesn't calculate hand size correctly after casting, so I removed them in place of more petrified fields, a platinum angel, and a squee. Also removed 4x Pact of Negation, which I never used once, for 4x Nether Shadow. (Dunno how I missed using those)
- dredge deck revised | Open
Run #6: (lockup) froze on game 1 when I attacked for the win
Run #7: (loss) Never got a bazaar, lost game 1.
Run #8: (loss) Mulliganed to 0 on round 2, then didn't draw a bazaar until my last turn, when it was too late.
Run #9: (loss) Monored direct damage was so bad in game 1 that I beat it without getting a bazaar all game :p Lost game 2 because the AI cheated by imprinting Lodestone Golem onto Chrome Mox, letting it cast two Cathodion Golem that I couldn't handle.
Run #10: (lockup) Got all the way to round 7, then my game locked up on the final attack.
Run #11: (loss) Got owned on round 1 by the white weenie shadow deck. A turn 4 bazaar was too late.
Run #12: (loss) Lost to slivers on round 3
Run #13: (lockup) Had to concede because Bazaar wanted me to discard a card when I had nothing in hand. Fortunately, only was on round 2.
Run #14: (loss) Lost on round 2 to elves, never got a bazaar.
Changed the deck a bit again to include crop rotation:
Took out the contagions and petrified fields for bayous and crop rotations. I have used the field once in 15 runs, and contagion is hard to use when you have no hand (same with unmask) so I just got rid of it.
Run #15: (loss) Lost on round 1. Turn 4 bazaar via crop of rotation is no match for relentless rats with 2 moxes by turn 2.
Run #16: (loss) Lost on round 5 against the spawnwrithe deck; a turn 4 bazaar was just that bit too late. One turn earlier and I'd have been fine.
I'm going to take a break from this challenge for now and work on the next ones.
edit: (Feb 8, 2011) As of this date, jatill has made this challenge easier. Your starting hand is now TWO cards instead of ZERO cards. I will try to beat it with the old version a few more times, then switch.
Run #17: (still using dredge w/crop rotation since it seems to work well) (loss) Got pwned on round 3 by the affinity deck.
Run #18: (loss) Lost on round 1 to the black/green tournament runner-up deck when my Dryad Arbor got hit with Shriekmaw and I had no access to green mana for Crop Rotation and no bazaar in sight.
Run #19: (loss) Lost on round 2 to the black/blue artifact deck. I had a turn 1 Bazaar, but AI had a turn 2 Wasteland and knew what to do with it
Then it Tinkered for Inkwell Leviathan on turn 4...Run #20: (loss) Lost on round 5 to the zombie deck. Turn 4 bazaar was too slow... I shouldn't have kept that, but I did.
Run #21: (loss) Lost on round 4 to the WRG zoo deck, as I mulliganed to zero without a bazaar and never saw one.
Without Serum Powder, this is EXTREMELY hard, so I am going to install the new version of this challenge, and play where I can keep 2 cards.
It turns out that the two cards you keep in hand are the BOTTOM two cards in your hand, so plan accordingly. In the earlier example, your hand would be Great Wall and Adventurer's Guildhouse, and your top card in library would be Wood Elemental. Also, if you take mulligans, you will still end up with a starting base hand of two cards, whichever two were the last two in hand. (or unknown ones off the top if you mulligan to 1 or less)
Run #22: (run #1 under the new 2-card super mulligan) (win) Well... mostly; I got a video of the game crashing during the winning attack of round 10, and by damn, that will have to be good enough! :p
It's absolutely amazing how much more consistent the deck is when you get those two cards, because you don't have to throw as many hands away that have bazaars that are too deep in the library. It would be even better if you have Street Wraith or Serum Powder unlocked. I was only able to beat the 0-card super mulligan by including those two cards in dredge back when this challenge was introduced.
http://uploading.com/files/b7mebcce/supermulligan.avi/
Last edited by aww1979 on 10 Feb 2011, 02:57, edited 4 times in total.
Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by Cognis » 31 Jan 2011, 16:27
I finally beat Shandalar 2.0 with this deck, you need a little luck in the last round but after many tries I finally won. It's actually better if you go second because Honden's don't trigger if the AI is first and you get an extra card. I played Time Walk, and dropped Emrakul on the same round and 3 turns later the AI was dead, actually with the new update the challenge is slightly more difficult because the AI starts with Clay Statue.
- Shandalar 2.0, 40 cards | Open
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by aww1979 » 01 Feb 2011, 14:42
Set #2
Challenge #2: What Hand?
The name for this one is somewhat misleading, as it doesn't really describe what the challenge is. You get dealt your usual 7 card hand (or less if you mulligan) but you skip all your draw phases every turn. This means you either need 1) A lot of draw spells or 2) You need a win combo in your opening hand. Naturally, Serum Powder is once again worth its weight in gold, and if you have it, I strongly recommend it for this challenge.
There are 10 rounds in this challenge. The first 9 are random challenge decks. Round #10 is a mirror match, meaning that the AI plays with a copy of whatever deck you are using, so be sure you can win in that situation.
I will, as usual, assume that you have not unlocked any cards yet. For this challenge, I think an Oath deck will work very well (it is what I used originally) and a dredge deck would probably do well also. Oath is faster, so I'll go with that:
I just downloaded the newest update, which includes Blightsteel Colossus, which is even more effing disgusting than emrakul or darksteel colossus, so I'm using that instead.
Only tutors that put the targeted card directly into hand are useful, as since the draw step is skipped here, you wouldn't ever draw it.
This challenge is pretty easy, and I expect to win it in one or two tries.
Run #1: (loss) Lost on round 5. I kept a hand of 6 land and Grim Tutor, but it was too slow.
Run #2: (loss) Lost on game 1. My Idyllic Tutor got countered by Daze, and my Sensei's Divining Top revealed nothing useful, so I conceded.
Run #3: (loss) Lost on game 1. Had two land, Sol Ring, and Grim Tutor in my opening hand. (4 card mulligan) AI cast Naturalize on Sol Ring before I could cast Grim Tutor, so I conceded.
Run #4: (loss) On turn 1, I played mox mox land Idyllic Tutor; AI cast Force of Will. I conceded.
Run #5: (lockup) Made it to round 6, and was facing the fog deck. I had no Forbidden Orchard, but did have an Oath of Druids, so I waited for the AI to cast Luminarch Ascension. It never did, and after playing an Ivory Tower, did nothing but discard or play a land every turn. I then was hoping to run it out of cards, but the game locked up when the AI had only about 12 cards left in library.
Run #6: (loss) Made it to round 7, then failed to get an oath in hand, mulliganing down to 2 cards. I still almost won, because I was against the fog deck, and it played Font of Mythos turn 4 and 5. Sadly, it played Luminarch Ascension turn 6, and ended up killing me with 3 cards left in its library...
Run #7: (loss) Got to round 8, but was against the red direct damage deck, whose only creatures are Spark Elemental. With Oath but no orchard, I had to concede.
At this point, I can't believe I haven't beat this challenge yet, so I am tweaking the deck slightly to make it more consistent, making room for crop rotation (to get the orchards) and phyrexian arena (so I can draw during upkeep if needed)
Run #8: (loss) Made it to round 9, then had to concede against the red direct damage deck; I had Oath but no way to get Forbidden Orchard.
Run #9: (loss) Got to round 8, but had to keep a weak 5 card hand with 3 mana and Grim Tutor. It was too slow against the soldier deck.
Took a break from this for awhile while I did the tournament games for February. Coming back to it, with the same blightsteel redone deck above...
Run #10: (loss) Lost on round #4. Had a slow turn 4 Oath, and my first colossus got killed with Path to Exile. I'd had Duress, but saw two Paths... took one but the other slowed me down enough that I lost.
Run #11: (lockup)(almost win; I'll upload video of it) Made it to round #10, only to realize that in this challenge, it's a mirror match! I had oath in hand, but no way to get an orchard, so I had to wait for AI to screw up. It gave me a spirit with its own orchard and I kept attacking, and attacking, and attacking... The AI had pretty much given up, not playing land drops most turns, and often discarding down to 7 cards. When it had 11 mana in play, it discarded a Blightsteel Colossus (!!) and next turn played a land. I kept attacking... when the AI got down to 3 life, the game locked up. (all that damage done either by the spirit, or its own painlands and one grim tutor) I suspect that it locked up because it either had Grim Tutor in hand (with 3 life it might've gotten confused about whether it could cast it or not) or that it had a Blightsteel Colossus (which it could've cast, but would've died to painlands doing so, assuming that it autotapped murmuring bosk for white, which it does, unless it needs B/G mana) Hopefully you will have better luck with the mirror than I did, as I'd been unprepared for it, forgetting it was there.
http://uploading.com/files/64138b85/whathand.avi/
Challenge #2: What Hand?
The name for this one is somewhat misleading, as it doesn't really describe what the challenge is. You get dealt your usual 7 card hand (or less if you mulligan) but you skip all your draw phases every turn. This means you either need 1) A lot of draw spells or 2) You need a win combo in your opening hand. Naturally, Serum Powder is once again worth its weight in gold, and if you have it, I strongly recommend it for this challenge.
There are 10 rounds in this challenge. The first 9 are random challenge decks. Round #10 is a mirror match, meaning that the AI plays with a copy of whatever deck you are using, so be sure you can win in that situation.
I will, as usual, assume that you have not unlocked any cards yet. For this challenge, I think an Oath deck will work very well (it is what I used originally) and a dredge deck would probably do well also. Oath is faster, so I'll go with that:
I just downloaded the newest update, which includes Blightsteel Colossus, which is even more effing disgusting than emrakul or darksteel colossus, so I'm using that instead.
- Blightsteel Colossus Oath | Open
Only tutors that put the targeted card directly into hand are useful, as since the draw step is skipped here, you wouldn't ever draw it.
This challenge is pretty easy, and I expect to win it in one or two tries.
Run #1: (loss) Lost on round 5. I kept a hand of 6 land and Grim Tutor, but it was too slow.
Run #2: (loss) Lost on game 1. My Idyllic Tutor got countered by Daze, and my Sensei's Divining Top revealed nothing useful, so I conceded.
Run #3: (loss) Lost on game 1. Had two land, Sol Ring, and Grim Tutor in my opening hand. (4 card mulligan) AI cast Naturalize on Sol Ring before I could cast Grim Tutor, so I conceded.
Run #4: (loss) On turn 1, I played mox mox land Idyllic Tutor; AI cast Force of Will. I conceded.
Run #5: (lockup) Made it to round 6, and was facing the fog deck. I had no Forbidden Orchard, but did have an Oath of Druids, so I waited for the AI to cast Luminarch Ascension. It never did, and after playing an Ivory Tower, did nothing but discard or play a land every turn. I then was hoping to run it out of cards, but the game locked up when the AI had only about 12 cards left in library.
Run #6: (loss) Made it to round 7, then failed to get an oath in hand, mulliganing down to 2 cards. I still almost won, because I was against the fog deck, and it played Font of Mythos turn 4 and 5. Sadly, it played Luminarch Ascension turn 6, and ended up killing me with 3 cards left in its library...
Run #7: (loss) Got to round 8, but was against the red direct damage deck, whose only creatures are Spark Elemental. With Oath but no orchard, I had to concede.
At this point, I can't believe I haven't beat this challenge yet, so I am tweaking the deck slightly to make it more consistent, making room for crop rotation (to get the orchards) and phyrexian arena (so I can draw during upkeep if needed)
- Blightsteel Oath redone | Open
Run #8: (loss) Made it to round 9, then had to concede against the red direct damage deck; I had Oath but no way to get Forbidden Orchard.
Run #9: (loss) Got to round 8, but had to keep a weak 5 card hand with 3 mana and Grim Tutor. It was too slow against the soldier deck.
Took a break from this for awhile while I did the tournament games for February. Coming back to it, with the same blightsteel redone deck above...
Run #10: (loss) Lost on round #4. Had a slow turn 4 Oath, and my first colossus got killed with Path to Exile. I'd had Duress, but saw two Paths... took one but the other slowed me down enough that I lost.
Run #11: (lockup)(almost win; I'll upload video of it) Made it to round #10, only to realize that in this challenge, it's a mirror match! I had oath in hand, but no way to get an orchard, so I had to wait for AI to screw up. It gave me a spirit with its own orchard and I kept attacking, and attacking, and attacking... The AI had pretty much given up, not playing land drops most turns, and often discarding down to 7 cards. When it had 11 mana in play, it discarded a Blightsteel Colossus (!!) and next turn played a land. I kept attacking... when the AI got down to 3 life, the game locked up. (all that damage done either by the spirit, or its own painlands and one grim tutor) I suspect that it locked up because it either had Grim Tutor in hand (with 3 life it might've gotten confused about whether it could cast it or not) or that it had a Blightsteel Colossus (which it could've cast, but would've died to painlands doing so, assuming that it autotapped murmuring bosk for white, which it does, unless it needs B/G mana) Hopefully you will have better luck with the mirror than I did, as I'd been unprepared for it, forgetting it was there.
http://uploading.com/files/64138b85/whathand.avi/
Last edited by aww1979 on 10 Feb 2011, 05:19, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by Wronskian » 04 Feb 2011, 22:29
for round 9 : instants and sorceries bannedaww1979 wrote:Set #1
Challenge #6: BANNED
Round 1: Stoic Angel gold deck. Black banned.
Round 2: Soldiers. Blue banned.
Round 3: WUB Artifacts. Green banned.
Round 4: Elf/Spawnwrithe Red banned.
Round 5: GU Threshold Deck. White banned.
Round 6: Kithkin. Artifacts banned.
Round 7: Countersliver deck. Planeswalkers banned. (Ajani unplayable, but white creatures still were)
Round 8: Turbofog. Creatures banned
Round 9: Goblin.
Round 10: Black/Artifact. Alpha Myr, Juggernaut, Moxen, Juzam Djinn, Cathodion. Land banned.
for round 7 : enchantments are banned too, I suppose
Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by aww1979 » 05 Feb 2011, 02:07
Ok thanks, I'll update that post. I figured it was enchantments for 7 (since planeswalkers are coded as enchantments) but wasn't really sure about 9.
Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by Wronskian » 05 Feb 2011, 18:47
For the challenge Gather No Moss : only walls. What do use to kill the opponents ?
Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial
by Cognis » 05 Feb 2011, 18:52
Rolling Stones 
I'm not kidding there is an enchantment with a similar name that let's walls attack
I'm not kidding there is an enchantment with a similar name that let's walls attack- Cognis
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