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Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby aww1979 » 14 Sep 2011, 05:52

Well, I am unemployed again (have mixed feelings about this :p) so I'm going to spend some of my time finishing this challenge tutorial up, and maybe even doing some of them again with different decks. A piece of good news; when I logged into youtube, I got a notice as so: "Congratulations! Your account is now enabled for uploads longer than 15 minutes. Click the Upload button below to select a video." I have no clue why, but hey, if it means I don't have to screw around with 15 min video edits, then I'm good with it.
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby aww1979 » 15 Sep 2011, 08:03

Set #3
Challenge #6: Gimme!

In this challenge, your deck can only have noncreature cards that can copy or steal another card, and you are now allowed 4 cards that break this rule. (the latter was not true when the challenge first came out) You can also only use lands from beta.

When I originally beat this challenge, I remember asking Jatill to code Sarkhan Vol as a 'gimme' card, since it can use its 2nd ability to steal a creature :p It also makes dragons... :^o I think there's probably a lot more 'gimme' cards coded than there were at the time I did this challenge. I'll make a list of them all as of Sept. 15, 2011:

| Open
Gimme cards (note: I have not tested these all to be 100% sure they work, I'm just going through deckbuilder and looking at what 'should' work)
*Animate Dead (steals dead creatures)
*Annex (steal a land)
*Bribery (steals creature from opponent's deck)
*Confiscate (steal a permanent)
*Conquer (steal a land)
*Control Magic (steal a creature)
*Copy Artifact (copy an artifact... duh?)
*Fork (copy an instant/sorcery)
*Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (2nd ability steals creatures; dunno why this one works when sarkhan vol and liliana vess don't)
*Reiterate (copy an instant or sorcery)
*Rite of Replication (copy a creature... or five)
*Sculpting Steel (copy an artifact)
*Steal Artifact (steal an... artifact)
*Threads of Disloyalty (steal a small creature... or a tarmogoyf)
*Twincast (copy an instant/sorcery)
*Treachery (steal a creature)
*Vedalken Shackles (steal a creature; another staple for this challenge)

* = confirmed that this is a working card in this challenge

Cards I realized later that might work but haven't bothered to test:
Keiga, the Tide Star
Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni


Cards that should probably be legal here, but aren't:
Beacon of Unrest (steals dead artifacts/creatures)
Helm of Obedience (steals a creature from opponent's deck, LOCKED by challenge mode 4:6 Challenge Challenge)
Isochron Scepter (copy an instant/interrupt of 2 mana or less)
Karn Liberated (3rd ability steals everything it previously exiled, possibly intentional due to the main ability being permanent removal/discard)
Liliana Vess (3rd ability steals all opponent's dead creatures, again possibly intentional due to main abilities not being stealing)
Mimic Vat (copies the exiled creature)
Mirari (copy an instant/sorcery)
Mirrorweave (copy the target creature many times)
Phrexian Metamorph (copies artifacts or creatures)
Sarkhan Vol (this one might be on purpose due to its primary usage being non-gimmelike)
Spitting Image (copy a creature)
Splinter Twin (copy enchanted creature)
Vesuva (copies land)


The deck I am using after figuring out which cards were legal or not in this challenge is:

Gimme that | Open
;gimme!
;
;#oldgames
;
;15/09/2011
;1
;4th Edition
;

.44 4 Control Magic
.1053 4 Rite Of Replication
.627 4 Threads of Disloyalty
.1341 4 Treachery
.258 4 Underground Sea
.266 4 Volcanic Island
.254 4 Tundra
.252 4 Tropical Island
.985 4 Bribery
.630 4 Vedalken Shackles
.1000 4 Confiscate
.126 11 Island
.815 1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
.451 4 Ring of Ma'rûf


Run #1: Loss. On round #1, I went against the (creatureless) Mana Flare/X damage R/G deck, and for the first time in the history of my challenge mode experiences, lost against that deck, as Bolas was the only possible win condition. This means that somewhere in the 4 wild cards, it is necessary to have a win condition against creatureless decks, such as the turbofog millstone, the creatureless red direct damage decks, and so on. (since I don't want to keep autoquitting whenever I hit one of those)

I changed my 4 wild cards to 4x Ring of Ma'ruf, so I can pick and choose what I need based on which deck I need a particular win condition for. They also will work against creature-based decks, too.

Run #2: Loss. Got beaten on round #1 by the threshold deck. Due to the high mana curve in my deck, I couldn't cast a spell until turn 4, and the AI decided to Force of Will that attempt to steal a Tarmogoyf. By turn 5, I was dead.
Run #3: Loss. Round 1 was white weenie, and the AI had me at 1hp on turn 4, with 6 creatures on the board. I was on the draw, and didn't get to cast a spell until it didn't matter anymore.
Run #4: Loss. Beat kobolds in round 1, then lost to affinity in round 2. The AI was 1hp short of killing me on turn 3.

edit sept. 15:
Run #5: Loss. Slivers ate me alive in round 1.
Run #6: Loss. Got to round 6, the best performance so far with this deck, but the X damage mana flare deck beat me again, since I had no win conditions besides rings and bolas, which I never got.
Run #7: Loss. Round 2 slivers came up again. I would have had a decent chance if it hadn't played three crystalline slivers by turn 4 :p I couldn't steal anything except one creature with Bribery.
Run #8: Loss. Round 3 was zombies, and it was just too fast. I had a decent hand, too, or as good as this deck can be.
Run #9: Loss. Round 1 was red direct damage... nothing to steal but spark elementals...
Run #10: Loss. Round 3 was red direct damage again. I got a Ring of Ma'Ruf out, planning to fetch CoP: Red, but I died the next turn to a fistful of flame rifts and lightning bolts.
Run #11: Loss. Round 1 was affinity; it got a turn 4 win. If it hadn't played Time Walk... I might've been able to come back, but that screwed me hard.
Run #12: Loss. Merfolk beat me in round 4. A well-timed Counterspell ruined my day.
Run #13: Loss. The red black vise deck killed me in round 1.

I'm going to leave this challenge behind for now and move on to the next one, in the hopes that more of the steal/copy cards will be added to the legal challenge list for this one.
Last edited by aww1979 on 16 Sep 2011, 09:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby Althuna » 15 Sep 2011, 20:37

That sounds like a fun challenge. Have you unlocked Sower of Temptation? That might be useful. I always liked it because you can bounce it over and over (momentary blink / flickerwisp / galepower mage / whatever you can do in manalink). Then you can capture enemy creatures over and over, and then ideally, use something to sacrifice them :) There is a land that lets you sacrifice a creature and you get life. And there is stuff like Carnage Altar. And there are some green enchants that let you sacrifice creatures, and there is also Fling.

It does look like a tough challenge though.
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby aww1979 » 16 Sep 2011, 01:54

I've unlocked all the challenges before, I was just trying to do them all again and posting the winning decks for people who were having troubles. Sower of Temptation is the one unlocked by Gimme!, and I'm trying to do the challenges without other challenge cards, since I'll assume anyone using my decks or similar ones might not have everything unlocked. (except when I redo Challenge Challenge, for obvious reasons!)
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby aww1979 » 16 Sep 2011, 10:31

Set #3
Challenge #7: March of the Machines 2

This challenge is strictly more difficult than 2:6, because this one bans artifact creatures. I think I beat it with some weird belcher deck when I did it originally, but as the belcher is a locked card, I'll come up with something else. Black Vise is one option. Living weapons are another, as they are a way to cheat creatures into play without using an actual artifact creature card. There's many more ways that might work... there are actually a lot of options here.

I'll start with a weird vise/stax thing:

| Open
;chalmarchtwo
;
;#oldgames
;
;16/09/2011
;1
;4th Edition
;

.169 1 Mox Sapphire
.168 1 Mox Ruby
.167 1 Mox Pearl
.166 1 Mox Jet
.165 1 Mox Emerald
.1805 1 Mox Opal
.1306 4 Sculpting Steel
.230 1 Sol Ring
.157 1 Mana Vault
.310 1 Grim Monolith
.505 4 Norn's Annex
.531 4 Phyrexian Metamorph*
.1216 4 Seat of the Synod
.1682 4 Darksteel Citadel
.1219 4 Ancient Den
.18 4 Black Vise
.17 1 Black Lotus
.114 4 Howling Mine
.1521 4 Font of Mythos
.1900 1 Memory Jar
.1215 4 Vault of Whispers
.894 1 Mana Crypt
.45 4 Semblance Anvil
.1573 4 Smokestack


Run #1: Made it to round 5, but the red direct damage deck emptied its hand against my vises and beat me.
Run #2: Manascrewed on round 4. AI played turn 2 Honor of the Pure, turn 3 Spectral Procession, turn 4 Crusade + another Honor of the Pure, while I stared at my one land dumbly.
Run #3: A bad play cost me round 3.
Run #4: Lost on round 1. Two vises took AI down to 5 life, but I had only 1 land all game, and I was against soldiers, so AIs hand emptied fast and killed me.

edit: sept 16, 2011: Went to the discussion for this challenge, and noticed two things. One was that a lot of people used belcher, which I won't because it could be locked for anyone trying this. Second was that basic lands are apparently allowed, which means strategies like Vedalken Shackles are more viable, or some of the coloured artifacts or artifacts using coloured activations like Obelisk of Alara.

I decided to switch up the strategy and try living weapons :p
It's ALIVE!!! | Open
;challivingweapon
;
;#oldgames
;
;16/09/2011
;1
;4th Edition
;

.165 1 Mox Emerald
.166 1 Mox Jet
.1805 1 Mox Opal
.167 1 Mox Pearl
.168 1 Mox Ruby
.169 1 Mox Sapphire
.230 1 Sol Ring
.17 1 Black Lotus
.869 4 Batterskull
.589 4 Flayer Husk
.1055 4 Lashwrithe
.1724 4 Cranial Plating
.821 3 Phyrexian Processor
.18 4 Black Vise
.239 16 Swamp
.520 1 Sword of Body and Mind
.450 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
.1833 1 Sword of Fire and Ice
.556 1 Sword of Light and Shadow
.1806 1 Sword of War and Peace
.114 4 Howling Mine
.1521 4 Font of Mythos


A mix of weapons and black vise for additional damage.

Run #5: Got to round 6 before losing to vampires; I kept a poor hand I should have mulliganed. (5x swamp, howling mine, font of mythos)
Run #6: Lost on round 1 to soldiers. Two Black Vises got him to 2hp, but I didn't get anything else in play all game. I think I'll switch out all the vise stuff and go with the living weapon strategy. (A vise deck should work, too; I'll try that if I don't win with this in a couple attempts)

My Minions | Open
;chalminion
;
;#oldgames
;
;16/09/2011
;1
;4th Edition
;

.165 1 Mox Emerald
.166 1 Mox Jet
.1805 1 Mox Opal
.167 1 Mox Pearl
.168 1 Mox Ruby
.169 1 Mox Sapphire
.230 1 Sol Ring
.17 1 Black Lotus
.869 4 Batterskull
.589 4 Flayer Husk
.1055 4 Lashwrithe
.1724 4 Cranial Plating
.821 4 Phyrexian Processor
.239 12 Swamp
.450 2 Sword of Feast and Famine
.1833 2 Sword of Fire and Ice
.1806 2 Sword of War and Peace
.1306 4 Sculpting Steel
.258 4 Underground Sea
.531 4 Phyrexian Metamorph*
.490 2 Mortarpod*


Run #7: Got all the way to round 9, but in the mirror match the AI got Sword of Feast or Famine (prot black) on a batterskull token, and with lifelink, vigilance, and prot black, I couldn't stop the enormous minion that resulted. The highlight was beating affinity when it had a black lotus draw by copying its Master of Etherium three times.
Run #8: Loss on round 1. I had to mulligan to 5 and AI kithkin deck killed me in 4 turns.
Run #9: Win. Made some misplays in the last game particularly, but managed to get through the gauntlet in spite of that. One game against soldiers the AI made a pretty bad misplay by not attacking one round when it should have, but I think I could have won the game anyway; it would have just been a lot longer and tougher. Nobody got sword of feast/famine in the mirror; it was all about spitting out huge processor minion tokens, and mine were bigger, so I won the war of attrition :)

video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFiwOpgMMGI
(A Vise deck with creature control might do well on this challenge as well; I was going to try that if the living weapon deck failed)
Last edited by aww1979 on 17 Sep 2011, 09:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby aww1979 » 17 Sep 2011, 09:40

Set #3
Challenge #8: Easy as 1,2,3...

For this challenge, your deck can only use beta lands, and exactly 4 cards each of the casting costs 1 through 10. Thus, your deck will always have 40 spells for this challenge, plus however many lands you consider appropriate. You will probably need extra land because your mana curve will be extremely high due to these requirements. I strongly recommend considering alternate casting cost cards or cards that can be played cheaper, such as Force of Will, Tombstalker, Frogmite, to name a few. Also, Serum Powder is excellent here if you have it unlocked, but I won't use it in case you don't have it yet.

A couple quick lists: (<=8 mana cost there are too many to bother with)

casting cost 10 cards as of Sept. 17, 2011 | Open
Broodstar, Jin-Gitaxias, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Progenitus, Stratadon, Time Stretch


casting cost 9 cards as of Sept. 17, 2001 | Open
Artisan of Kozilek, Bringer of the Black/Blue/Green Dawn, Darksteel Forge, Dragonstorm, Inkwell Leviathan, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Leviathan, Plague Wind, Searing Wind, Spirit of the Night


Lifegain Oath deck | Open
;chaleasyas
;
;#oldgames
;
;17/09/2011
;1
;4th Edition
;

.349 4 Enlightened Tutor
.1902 4 Oath of Druids
.856 4 Violent Outburst
.629 4 Eureka
.1675 1 Progenitus
.1811 3 Stratadon
.120 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
.1299 1 Spirit of the Night
.253 2 Artisan of Kozilek
.872 4 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
.784 4 Phantom Nishoba
.955 4 Wurmcoil Engine
.1585 4 Baneslayer Angel
.212 4 Savannah
.189 4 Plateau
.241 4 Taiga
.12 4 Bayou
.252 4 Tropical Island
.216 2 Scrubland
.254 2 Tundra


Run #1: Lost on round 4 to the red direct damage deck.
Run #2: Win. Got lucky in two matches where I had Oath in opening hand but no green mana, and drew green mana both times on the first draw. The mirror match also went my way; AI missed its 4th land drop, meaning I didn't have to fear Eureka, which with only 1 creature in hand at the time, I was ill-prepared for. When the AI did cast Eureka, it only played 3 creatures and I had 2 by then, and mine were better so I won.

video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_AmS9AghPQ
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby aww1979 » 17 Sep 2011, 12:51

Ugh, something happened to the videos for set #3, challenges 5/7/8 on my recording program, and the edges of the screen are cut off. You can still mostly tell what's going on, though. Sorry about that.
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby aww1979 » 22 Sep 2011, 12:42

Set #3
Challenge #9: The Perfect Storm
(as with all other set #3 challenges, only beta lands can be used)

For this challenge, the turn you play a spell, you have to win the game on that turn. To me, this suggests a Tendrils deck. You can also make a Belcher deck, but that requires a locked card, and I don't consider it as good a deck as Tendrils. Unfortunately, Tendrils takes more skill to play than most decks, but given the nature of this challenge, there are very few other choices. A dragonstorm deck might work, and would be easier than tendrils to play, though I doubt it would be as good. Dredge might have a good chance, since it isn't actually casting a lot of spells, but it also needs Serum Powder to be really good, and that's also a locked card. Street Wraith is also nice as a card to cycle for free, but it's also locked.

I'll go with a Tendrils deck. Other than Mind's Desire, which is the card we are trying to unlock, most of the key cards are available, and other than Time Walk, most of them work under the constraints of this challenge.

Here's the deck I designed for this challenge:
The Category 5 Tornado | Open
;chaltps
;
;#oldgames
;
;22/09/2011
;1
;4th Edition
;

.165 1 Mox Emerald
.166 1 Mox Jet
.167 1 Mox Pearl
.168 1 Mox Ruby
.169 1 Mox Sapphire
.17 1 Black Lotus
.230 1 Sol Ring
.250 1 Timetwister
.1351 1 Tinker
.282 1 Wheel of Fortune
.62 1 Demonic Tutor
.55 4 Dark Ritual
.1886 1 Burning Wish
.1898 1 Lion's Eye Diamond
.327 3 Grim Tutor
.1910 1 Yawgmoth's Will*
.1704 1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
.1 1 Ancestral Recall
.950 4 Gitaxian Probe
.1424 1 Lotus Petal
.894 1 Mana Crypt
.157 1 Mana Vault
.1696 4 Manamorphose
.587 4 Meditate
.1900 1 Memory Jar
.202 1 Regrowth
.309 1 Windfall
.1502 4 Infernal Contract
.1892 2 Elvish Spirit Guide
.1904 2 Simian Spirit Guide
.258 4 Underground Sea
.9 3 Badlands
.252 2 Tropical Island
.12 1 Bayou
.1848 1 Tendrils of Agony


Most of the deck is probably what you'd expect from a Tendrils deck. Playing it right can be tricky, particularly as here where you will have to wait and judge when you should make the attempt to win. A tendrils deck essentially plays as follows: 1) get all the mana you can from what's available 2) draw some cards 3) get all the mana you can from the new resources 4) repeat, with the cycle being broken only by running out of mana, cards, or winning. Always be on the lookout for ways to win with what you have, and take your time with every play; this isn't a tournament, and the AI won't whine if you take 10 minutes to take your turn, or even make one play.
(edit: because I'm a retard and didn't actually put a Tendrils in the deck! Replaced the 4th grim tutor with tendrils)

Run #1: Win. Two games a human would have beat me. (With Gitaxin Probe, I saw 2x Daze in one game that would have beat me if used, and in another I saw Cryptic Command that would have beat me if used) Yawgmoth's Bargain was crap in this deck; replace it with another land or spirit guide; I would have done so if I'd needed another run. I had some bad luck with Memory Jar; I kept having it in hand whenever I wanted to Tinker for it. One game I had 50 cards in deck, Tinker and Manamorphose in hand. I cast manamorphose and drew... memory jar. *facepalm* (still won the game, though :p)

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVMqH9BQkvw
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby dastral » 12 May 2012, 21:49

Hello

Is there a way to just cheat and beat the challenges without wasting time & effort ?
Making Vintage/Legacy deck is boring as hell...

Not to mention i auto-lose despite using only 3rd edition cards and respecting this WOTC Format for Vintage/Legacy.
I just want to be able to make decks using ALL the cards w/o bothering with challenges (at the moment) and doing random gauntlets.

Thank you.
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby porphyre » 05 Jun 2012, 16:23

dastral wrote:Hello

Is there a way to just cheat and beat the challenges without wasting time & effort ?

I just want to be able to make decks using ALL the cards w/o bothering with challenges (at the moment) and doing random gauntlets.

Thank you.
I echo this sentiment.

With all due respect to the guys who have been producing the patches and everything, locking cards out is frustrating.... ESPECIALLY with how buggy the engine is. Apart from the "Puzzle" challenge, none of the challenges are Magic... it's simply playing against a cheating opponent... Goblin deck starting play w/ Goblin Warchief? That's not fun.

I gave up on Challenge 1.1: The randomization routines are broken. I got to the Sliver Queen 3 times using Awww1979's Oath deck and ALL THREE TIMES the computer played first and went, Land, Mox, Mox, Lotus.
I gave up on Challenge 1.2: It simply doesn't load. Game locks as soon as I click the "Chaos Orb" avatar card.
I'm close to giving up on Challenge 1.3: Using Aww1979's WW lifegain, sometimes the lifelink doesn't work. Sometimes Ajani's Pridemate doesn't trigger. Frustrating. Sometimes.

How do we skip all the challenges and just play Magic?
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby gabeiq » 05 Jun 2012, 17:17

I agree with porphyre in terms of gamecrashes, thats really frustating.....onslaugh for me is taking weeks, 80% of the time I lose due to a crash where rules engine stops to accumulate storm counters.

Forgetting the crashes..... Challenges ARE MAGIC, you just have to improve your deckbuilding and mulligan ability around specific conditions!

Most times your deck could be vintage, and a LOT of vintage decks around could do better against you than a sliver queen turn one!

For the first challenge I recomend you to trade 1 Wrath, 1 Damnation, 1 grove and 1 timetwister for 4 tabernacles.... thas how I made it like a week ago...

There is ways to cheat and get the cards(2 that I know), I doubt that you find a way searching for it, to me it was found by accident, and no one will explain you how to do it.
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby porphyre » 06 Jun 2012, 01:42

Thanks for the tip about more Tabernacles. I had a version of the "No Hand" Oath deck using a single Tabernacle plus Crop Rotation... it didn't work out as well as the heavy removal + Tabernacle. Plus I got lucky w/ a 2nd turn Moat against the Rats, first turn removal + him being stuck on 1 land for 3 turns against the Goblins, and Sliver Queen got land + 3 mox instead of Land, 2 mox, lotus. So she didn't cast double poison sliver then Time Walk and kill me on the second turn.

No, the challenges aren't Magic... I never sat down at a Tour and had a kid drop a Sliver Queen before he drew a hand. Going through rounds at States, I never had my starting life go down while my opponent's went up. And I never, ever, played a one game per match format.

As to bypassing the challenges, this was the second challenge I beat... two points make a line so it only took about 5 minutes to figure out how Jatill was tracking the challenges. I wonder if his (her?) friends feel honored to be immortalized in the game? I finally get to play with Umezawa's Jitte again!
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby WhiteWolf » 03 Sep 2012, 20:49

I didn't know what would be the best spot to place this question, but considering it has to do with unlocking cards I thought it would be best to post my question here.

I have been trying to unlock Mind's Desire by beating the challenge 3.9 The Perfect Storm

I've used a dredge deck and managed to beat this challenge a few times. After the 9th opponent I get the message that I unlocked the card. After I've added the card to my Tendrils deck and play a new game, I notice that during the match the card still seems to be locked. Thinking there might be some kind of bug I closed the whole program, started it up again and tried to play another game, but the card still seems to be locked. Getting a bit more irritated I still managed to beat the challenge again and getting the message. This time I chose to close the program, restart it to check this might bring me any luck, but the card still seems to be locked.

So my question is: How do I make sure that I've really unlocked the card after having beaten the challenge?
Is it necessary to unlock every card in order? Meaning I would have to beat challenge 1.1-3.8 first? Or just 3.1-3.8?

I really enjoy playing this game, even with some of the cards being locked, but I would enjoy it even more if I managed to get some cards unlocked.
For your information, I'm using Manalink_3.0_20120715_v3 by CirothUngol
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby MarkyMark » 05 Sep 2012, 07:02

Are you still working on the 'Gimme!' challenge? I had real trouble with this one, especially against the red creatureless decks that burn you out. The best solution I have found is to turn the 4 slots into 3 Stoneforge Mystic and 1 Batterskull. This gives you a lot of game against the burn decks, and even makes it possible to beat the Sliver deck after a Crystaline Sliver comes down.

Sarkhan Vol never did enough for me, but Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker tends to hold his weight. If anyone's interested, I can provide an exact decklist.
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Re: Beating the Challenges - Tutorial

Postby stassy » 05 Sep 2012, 07:13

Please do :D
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