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I went poking around in the RSN_MANA.lol file, and figured that I was on to something there. The card's code doesn't seem to be causing the issue, but it just happened again. ;_; So "elseif (string.match( sToken, "{1}" )) then"... all the way past the 16 that's listed there doesn't quite fix the issue.

Seems like every time I end up with more than 10 or so mana 'tokens', I'll completely lose the ability to play cards and activate abilities. Been trying to wrap my head around that for a couple of days.

I know for sure that I've had more than that available at once without problems, so the issue at least isn't present in all cases. If you can find a specific board setup that reliably causes the issue, you can send me the decklists and a list of each player's battlefields and I'll look into it.

As for the function file, while it's possible there could be issues on some cards relating to the mana parsing, Kruphix isn't among them. I can say that because the only mana production function that Kruphix calls is this one:

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RSN_ProduceNoTrigger( "{1}", 1 )

It never calls anything with numbers others than 1, let alone with direct mana strings higher than 1. By that, I mean that the issue you're noticing in the function file would arise in the following situation:

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RSN_ProduceNoTrigger( "{1}", 1 ) //fine
RSN_ProduceNoTrigger( "{16}", 1 ) //fine
RSN_ProduceNoTrigger( "{17}", 1 ) //broken

But it only ever calls the string section with "{1}".

The reason the function only checks up to {16} is because that if the last mana string token that the game supports for colourless mana, {17} is unsupported by the game. However, the function is designed to be able to produce more than 16 mana quite easily. For example you call:

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RSN_ProduceNoTrigger("{1}", 20) // Will produce 20 colourless mana just fine
RSN_ProduceNoTrigger("{7}", 9) // Will produce 63 colourless mana just fine
RSN_ProduceNoTrigger("{1}", 120) // Will only produce a maximum of 100 colourless mana due to engine token limits
RSN_ProduceNoTrigger("{2}{G}{U}{R}", 7) // Will produce 14 colourless mana, 7 Green mana, 7 Blue mana, and 7 Red mana
RSN_ProduceNoTrigger("{1}{B}{U}{G}{R}{W}", 100) // Will probably crash the game due to trying to create 600 mana tokens

Personally, I've had no problem creating and using up to ~80-90 mana tokens in game at any given time.

Additionally, the {16} string token limit is documented for every one of the RSN_Produce* functions.

Just in case it wasn't clear, I know those situations are fine. I was just pointing out that the problem would only arise with {17} or higher, and that's never done on the card.

I really appreciate the feedback you guys are presenting, and I'm going to take a look at removing the other non-community wads that I've got applied. (2012/2013 imports) and see if the issue persists. So far the only thing I've noticed is the issue always appears at some point in the game when Kruphix is out, as well as a Nykthos.

Bonktacular wrote:I really appreciate the feedback you guys are presenting, and I'm going to take a look at removing the other non-community wads that I've got applied. (2012/2013 imports) and see if the issue persists. So far the only thing I've noticed is the issue always appears at some point in the game when Kruphix is out, as well as a Nykthos.

Do you mean they both have to be out, or do you mean that if either is out, then the issue will eventually crop up?

So far it's that they've both been out. It may just be a coincidence, though. I usually try to have that in play when things start to get rolling. Currently trying to get it to happen again, but the AI is a bit aggressive today. ;.; Working on just using the community wad to see if I can get it to happen.

In my trials to make this happen easier... I've discovered that Doubling Cube doesn't do anything. :O

So without the other wads that imported the 2012 and 2013 decks, it doesn't seem the mana issue is present just yet. I'll keep playing around and see what combinations makes it happen.

Although, it may be worth noting that the mana issue is primarily present in multiplayer. We can't trust anything we see in multiplayer. I don't quite remember seeing it against any AI 1v1.

Bonktacular wrote:In my trials to make this happen easier... I've discovered that Doubling Cube doesn't do anything. :O

So without the other wads that imported the 2012 and 2013 decks, it doesn't seem the mana issue is present just yet. I'll keep playing around and see what combinations makes it happen.

Although, it may be worth noting that the mana issue is primarily present in multiplayer. We can't trust anything we see in multiplayer. I don't quite remember seeing it against any AI 1v1.

I'm surprised Doubling Cube went so long without anyone noticing it. I had an array named ColorSymbols but referenced it as TokenNames by accident (probably a copying issue... not sure; it's been 3 months since I made it). It should work in the next update, though. Aside from that, it looked like the code should work.

As for multiplayer games, I'm not sure what would cause that, but I never play multiplayer, so I'd never have noticed it. You'll have to let me know if you can narrow down the circumstances needed for it to occur.

I think I figured out the whole mana issue. I couldn't replicate the thing in single player, and I feel it's due to lots of syncing/latency between the clients in multiplayer. Currently I'm working on assembling the decks to be independent of the CW, since there's *so* much information from that. I'm just using this between 2-4 friends of mine, and the inability to perform actions happens much, much quicker when the CW is present.

Know of a tool or function in the Riiak Deck Builder that would let me export art/functions/cards in with the wads?

Bonktacular wrote:I think I figured out the whole mana issue. I couldn't replicate the thing in single player, and I feel it's due to lots of syncing/latency between the clients in multiplayer. Currently I'm working on assembling the decks to be independent of the CW, since there's *so* much information from that. I'm just using this between 2-4 friends of mine, and the inability to perform actions happens much, much quicker when the CW is present.

Know of a tool or function in the Riiak Deck Builder that would let me export art/functions/cards in with the wads?

I don't know of any functionality within the deck builder for that, but doing it manually for a couple of decks wouldn't be too difficult. Basically, this would be the process.

1: Unpack the CW.
2: Ignore all folders except CARDS.
3: Ignore all cards that start with "_", "TOKEN_", or "RSN_".
4: Delete all other card files not being used by your decks.
5: Repack the wad. You can also rename the folders that are labeled "DATA_DLC_COMMUNITY_CORE". If you do, open both header files (or the header file if there's only one) and change the name there, too.

For the art, it'd be a lot more tedious. If you know AHK or a similar language, you can probably manage it really easily.

Alright, so I've taken some time and made a new tool which should help with this immensely. Hopefully. If it works... lol

Here's, the idea: Unzip the contents of this zip into its own folder. Only the EXE and the INI should exist. The ini can be deleted if you want to keep the default wad name (which is "DATA_DLC_CW_LITE").

Run the EXE and it'll let you know what it needs and where. It needs the CW core wad, all CW art wads, Gibbed Tools, and your decks to process. The CW files go into the folder with the EXE itself. The other two sets of files each go into their own subfolders, which it will create and tell you to fill. Once that's all done, it'll process the decks and create a custom wad file with only the cards and art needed to make it work. It'll catch any directly created cards as well as tokens made by those cards (hopefully those tokens are properly registered, because that's how it decides what to grab). That wad should theoretically be usable in place of the CW.

A note, make sure you include ALL decks at once. The decks themselves are NOT included in the new custom wad. The new custom wad will contain the functions, cards, and art, and any other files needed from the CW. But like the CW itself, it won't contain decks.

Extra info - This will make more sense after you've used it once or twice. | Open

It'll keep all function files and text permanent files and such, and then just because of how widely they're used and how damaging it can be to have them missing, it'll also automatically include all 10 or so manager tokens and RiiakShiNal's manual mana tokens whether anything registered them or not.

I have not tested the created wad. You'll have to let me know how that bit goes. It's worth nothing that it takes a LONG time to unpack the art wads and the core (though the core is nothing compared to the art). Decks can also take quite awhile. However, once they've been done once, as long as you don't mess with the created custom wad folder, you can just drop updated wads into their folders and run it from there. Meaning drop new decks into the Decks folder, drop updated core and art wads into the main folder (the folder with the EXE in it). It understands when it already has the files it needs.

DO NOT delete files from inside the CARDS folder it creates or from the ILLUSTRATIONS folder it creates. Also DO NOT delete files from inside the deck folders (the subfolders inside the "Decks" folder). You can safely delete any of those FOLDERS, but do NOT delete files inside those folders. (It checks that the folder itself exists. If the folder's contents are messed up, it won't recognize that and you'll have problems.) Same goes for the custom wad folder. If you change the name, you'll need to supply the core and art wads again.

If you don't want to wait for that again after changing the name in the ini, then rename the custom wad folder, the subfolder, and open the @header.xml file and HEADER.XML file (you'll see them while renaming the folders) and change the name there, too.

Bonktacular wrote:Know of a tool or function in the Riiak Deck Builder that would let me export art/functions/cards in with the wads?

There is nothing for functions, but if all you want is specific individual art or card(s) then you can right click on a card in the list and choose "Export Card XML" or "Export Image Crop" to get the card's XML or the unadulterated image (meaning just the image not the entire card preview) respectively.

That should be really helpful! I can just cut the unnecessary items from the CW on my end and test from there, and leave the function folder where it is. Sorry about the misdiagnosis on the kruphix problem. He works just fine.

Edit:

My next goal is to find out exactly how much I can trim from the wads that the game comes with and still load the game stable. The de-sync usually happens within the first three turns, or when a decision needs made. Whichever occurs first.

Is there already a thread concerning multiplayer issues like that?

Bonktacular wrote:That should be really helpful! I can just cut the unnecessary items from the CW on my end and test from there, and leave the function folder where it is. Sorry about the misdiagnosis on the kruphix problem. He works just fine.

Edit:

My next goal is to find out exactly how much I can trim from the wads that the game comes with and still load the game stable. The de-sync usually happens within the first three turns, or when a decision needs made. Whichever occurs first.

Is there already a thread concerning multiplayer issues like that?

On the off-chance you missed it, there's a post above in which I linked a program to do the work for you. I imagine you saw it, but your post makes it sound like you're still planning to do it manually, so I figured I'd make sure. (Obviously you can do it however you want.)

There's a thread somewhere about multiplayer issues, but it's for some specific problem if I remember right. It'd still probably be a better thread than this one for the issue. Or you could always make your own if it doesn't fit well enough for your liking.