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June Tournament (tournament complete; scherbchen1 wins)

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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby taron » 23 Jun 2010, 15:59

Hey Jatill, has Emrakul been requested yet? If not, then I might ask for that. It's still either him or Chalice of the Void =\
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby jatill » 23 Jun 2010, 16:22

taron wrote:Hey Jatill, has Emrakul been requested yet? If not, then I might ask for that. It's still either him or Chalice of the Void =\
It has not. If I were to add him, I'd have to do a couple approximations.
1) Protection from colored spells becomes Shroud.
2) When you cast trigger becomes comes into play (but only if it was in your hand, so it still won't trigger off Oath).

Similarly, Chalice would make it so spells couldn't be played, instead of countering them.

So I can do either of these, but not perfectly.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby juzamjedi » 23 Jun 2010, 16:24

Scherbchen as human (win 2-0):

Game 1
My opening hand does not have Natural Order. However, it has Wall of Blossoms and Kitchen Finks. Since we're playing against Zoo that is probably good enough so I keep. I win the roll and play first.
T1 Forest, Noble Hierarch -> AI has Taiga, Wild Nacatl
T2 (draw Island) Tropical Island, Kitchen Finks (22, 20) -> AI Forest, Tarmogoyf (0/1)
T3 (draw Island) Island, Coiling Oracle (draw Progenitus), Wall of Blossoms (draw Force of Will). Attack with Kitchen Finks (22, 16) -> AI no plays
T4 (draw Kitchen Finks) Attack with Kitchen Finks (22, 12). Play Kitchen Finks (24, 12) -> AI no plays
T5 (draw Wall of Blossoms) Attack with Kitchen Finks (24, 8). Island, Wall of Blossoms (draw Tropical Island) -> AI Windswept Heath for Plateau (24, 7)
T6 (draw Forest) Attack with Kitchen Finks, AI uses Path to Exile and I search for Island -> AI Kor Skyfisher, Kor Skyfisher.
T7 (draw Garruk) Attack with Kitchen Finks. AI double blocks with the Skyfishers and I kill one of them (26, 7). Garruk Wildspeaker, make a beast. AI has a ton of cards so I assume Garruk will just die and I'm not going to be hard casting this Progenitus. -> AI Imperial Recruiter. I notice that AI does not have to reveal the card he searched for (?) Kor Skyfisher kills Garruk.
T8 (draw Natural Order) Natural Order for Progenitus. -> AI Bloodbraid Elf into Kor Skyfisher. Attack me with Kor Skyfisher (24, 7)
T9 (draw Control Magic) attack with Progenitus and win.

Game 2
Opening hand is 4 lands (no fetches), Brainstorm, Jace the Mind Sculptor and Kitchen Finks. This isn't the best against Zoo, but I really like Finks against Zoo and Brainstorm hopefully digs me out of trouble.

T1 AI Savannah, Wild Nacatl -> (draw Control Magic) Tropical Island
T2 AI Plains, attack with Wild Nacatl (20, 18) -> (draw Wall of Blossoms) Forest, Wall of Blossoms (draw Natural Order). AI cast Swords to Plowshares on my wall during my end step.
T3 AI Woodland Foothills to fetch Mountain, attack with Wild Nacatl (19, 15). Kitchen Finks (21, 15) -> (draw Island) Forest, Kitchen Finks (21, 17)
T4 AI Imperial Recuiter -> (draw Spike Weaver) Natural Order for Progenitus (21, 19)
T5 AI Bloodbraid Elf into Kitchen Finks (13, 19) -> (draw Coiling Oracle) attack with Progenitus (11, 19). Tropical Island, Control Magic targeting Kitchen Finks.
T6 AI Ajani Goldmane pump dudes and pass. End of Turn I Brainstorm for Island Kitchen Finks and Wall of Blossoms. -> (draw Jace) Attack AI with Progenitus (3, 19). Island, Coiling Oracle (draw Spike Weaver). Wall of Blossoms (draw Garruk Wildspeaker)
T7 AI paths my Kitchen Finks. Pump with Ajani. Attack with Bloodbraid Elf, Kitchen Finks, and Wild Nacatl and I just chump block all of them -> (draw Fact or Fiction) attack with Progenitus and I win.

Cognis as human win 2-1
Opening hand is 4 lands, 2x Eternal Witness and Ajani Goldmane. This isn't good enough because it has little pressure and no removal. Mulligan.
6 cards is Wild Nacatl, Kor Skyfisher, Bloodbraid Elf and 3 lands. I keep.
T1 AI Tropical Island -> (draw Wild Nacatl) Windswept Heath for Savannah, Wild Nacatl (19, 20)
T2 AI Coiling Oracle puts Tropical Island into play -> (draw Imperial Recruiter) Plateau, attack with Wild Nacatl (19, 17). Wild Nacatl
T3 AI Island, Kitchen Finks (19, 19) -> (draw Kor Skyfisher) Mountain, Imperial Recruiter (search for Tarmogoyf) attack with both Wild Nacatl and AI trades one of them with Kitchen Finks (19, 18)
T4 AI Island -> (draw Path to Exile) attack with Imperial Recruiter and Wild Nacatl. AI chooses to double block Wild Nacatl which I'm OK to trade (19, 17). Tap out, Kor Skyfisher bouncing a land, replay land and cast Tarmogoyf.
T5 AI Island, Jace the Mind Sculptor, brainstorms with Jace. Coiling Oracle revealing Progenitus :) -> (draw Bloodbraid Elf) I path the Coiling Oracle. I kill Jace with Tarmogoyf and hit AI for 3 (19, 14). Kor Skyfisher and I bounce Imperial Recruiter back to my hand.
T6 Forest -> (draw Bloodbraid Elf) attack AI with team (19, 6) Imperial Recruiter for Tarmogoyf
T7 AI Control Magic on my Tarmogoyf -> (draw Bloodbraid Elf) I now have all 4 BBE's, but not enough mana to cast them. Grr. Attack with team (19, 1) and cast Tarmogoyf.
T8 AI Forest -> (draw Plains) Plains, Bloodbraid Elf (why not!) into Wild Nacatl. AI uses Force of Will to counter BBE and kills itself!

Game 2
Opening hand is Tarmogoyf, Ajani Goldmane, Eternal Witness, and 4 lands. I mulligan because my lands won't let me cast Eternal Witness and I don't have removal.
6 cards Forest, Plains, Kor Skyfisher, Scute Mob, Sarkhan Vol, Ajani Goldmane. Ugh, mulligan again.
5 cards are Forest, Tarmogoyf, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, and Kor Skyfisher. Keep.
T1 AI Tropical Island -> (draw plains) Plains
T2 AI Wall of Blossoms. EOT I send it farming -> (draw Scute Mob) Forest, Scute Mob. Mostly I'm trying to bait removal here, but he's currently same power as Tarmogoyf anyway.
T3 AI Island, Kitchen Finks. EOT I path it (20, 22) -> (draw Eternal Witness) attack with Scute Mob (20, 21) Play Kor Skyfisher to bounce a land and replay it.
T4 AI Control Magic on my Kor Skyfisher -> (draw Bloodbraid Elf) play Tarmogoyf
T5 AI plays Garruk Wildspeaker and makes a beast token. Attacks with Kor Skyfisher (18, 21) -> (draw Plains) Plains
T6 AI Natural Order for Progenitus. Make another Beast token and attack with skyfisher (16, 21) -> (draw Plains) Plains
T7 AI attacks and it's not enough to kill me, but I concede since I can't win next turn.

Game 3
Opening hand is Taiga, 2x Tarmogoyf, Swords to Plowshares, Kor Skyfisher, Imperial Recruiter, Bloodbraid Elf. I mulligan, but for me that hand is very close. If it had been Savannah or a fetch land instead I probably keep that hand.
6 cards are Mountain, Forest, Wild Nacatl, Dragonmaster Outcast, Imperial Recruiter and Kor Skyfisher. I keep.
T1 Forest, Wild Nacatl -> AI Tropical Island
T2 (draw Plains) Mountain. Attack with Wild Nacatl (20, 18) Dragonmaster Outcast. -> AI Forest, Coiling Oracle revealing Noble Hierarch
T3 (draw Plains) Plains. Attack with Wild Nacatl (20, 15). Imperial Recruiter searching for Tarmogoyf -> AI Island, Noble Hierarch
T4 (draw Forest) attack with Imperial Recruiter and Wild Nacatl. AI trades oracle for the recruiter (20, 12). Forest, Tarmogoyf, Kor Skyfisher bouncing Dragonmaster Outcast back to my hand -> Island AI Control Magic on Kor Skyfisher (goyf was only a 1/2)
T5 (draw Plains) attack with Wild Nacatl (20, 9) Plains, Dragonmaster Outcast -> AI Forest, Control Magic on Wild Nacatl. Attack me with Kor Skyfisher (17, 9)
T6 (draw Bloodbraid Elf) Plains, Bloodbraid Elf into Wild Nacatl. AI is tapped out so I attack with Tarmogoyf, Dragonmaster Outcast and Bloodbraid Elf. AI chump blocks Bloodbraid (17, 7) -> AI Natural Order for Progenitus and attack with Kor Skyfisher (15, 7)
T7 (draw Plains) get a dragon during my upkeep. Attack AI with team, Progenitus kills Tarmogoyf but AI still dies.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby jatill » 23 Jun 2010, 16:25

@aww
For future tournaments, am I allowed to build decks that exploit known bugs? For example, Emrakul + Elvish Piper (based on the above appromixation)?

Also, should I avoid exploiting bugs when playing the AI? Ex, am I allowed to Disenchant a Planeswalker? Where do I draw the line between a bug and tricking the AI since I know when it will make a terrible play (ex: pumping Figure of Destiny after blockers)?
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby Serbitar » 23 Jun 2010, 17:06

Finals
Scherbchen - Cognis


as Scherbchen (2:0, Scherbchen +2pts)

1st game, I mulligan into Island, Forest, Coiling Oracle, Kitchen Finks, Natural Order, Control Magic.
Natural Order on turn 4 is enough against his Tarmogoyf and Kor Skyfisher.
2nd game, again NO on t4 beats AI's slow hand.

as Cognis (0:2, Scherbchen +5pts)

1st game, I cannot draw a third land, but remove three Kitchen Finks while pressuring the AI with Nacatl and Goyf. AI gets Progenitus at 9 Life, me having nine power of creatures. AI swings and plays two blockers, when I can only remove one. I die.
2nd game, I mulligan a no-lander into a slow six. AI has NO on t4, I die.

[I'm a bit sad the finals were so lopsided in my play. I would have won g1 as Cognis with a third land, while g2, another mulligan would not have saved me... oh well.]
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby thedrigo » 23 Jun 2010, 17:25

FINALS Cognis vs. Scherbchen

Match 1: Scherbchen (ME) vs. Cognis (AI)


Game 1 & 2: WIN x2. Progenitus turn 3 absolutely pwned the AI.


Match 2: Cognis (ME) vs. Scherbchen (AI)

Game 1: LOSE. This deck has no answer to Progenitus. I exiled all of the AI's creatures up until turn 4 but my Goyf was stolen and fed to NO. Two turns later, game over.
Game 2: WIN. AI cast NO on turn 2 but fished for Woodfall Primus instead of Proggy. The game lagged and I won with Dragonmaster Outcast dragons.
Game 3: LOSE. Damn AI stole ALL of my dudes (yes, 4 Control Magic in rapid succesion), dropped Progenitus and I lose.

Scherbchen +5
Cognis 0
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby juzamjedi » 23 Jun 2010, 17:27

Don't feel too bad about it Serbitar. I also had to mulligan a lot of times with Cognis' deck. Zoo has to have a fast hand and/or some removal to have a chance against Natural Order.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby scherbchen1 » 23 Jun 2010, 18:23

this bodes well for Germany's chances tonight 8-[
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby Nyktorion » 23 Jun 2010, 19:27

My results for the finals:

Scherbchen wins vs Cognis AI 2-0 (+2 pts for Scherbchen)
Cognis wins vs Scherbchen AI 2-0 (+2 pts for Cognis)

Games as Scherbchen:
Game 1: my Garruk Beasts and Kitchen Finks are simply superior to the AI's small Tarmogoyfs and Wild Nacatl in this game. Garruk's ultimate finishes the game spectacularly.
Game 2: Slow start for both sides: AI sits at one mana for some turns, I sit at three mana with many four-mana spells in my hand for some turn. Later, we both get out a few creatures, but finally, I draw Natural Order and pull out a Progenitus.

Games as Cognis:
Game 1: I get out some early critters, however all but the smallest of them become blocked by Walls of Blossoms. A Scute Mob with 5 lands in play speeds up th game in my favor. However, the AI gets a Progenitus. Still, I can race the AI (btw: I was at exactly 21 life), and a Wall of Reverence (together with the growing Scute Mob) turns the race even more into my favor. The AI made two blunders in this game, but I think even without those it would have lost: first, on turn after Progenitus, it sacced the Progenitus to Natural Order just to get another one, losing one more turn in the race; second, it did not use the Jace it played during the last turn it was alive.
Game 2: An early Scute mob with a somewhat floody hand (4 mana), which starts growing at the upkeep of turn 6 already, together with some small critters, quickly overrun the AI.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby Brandon822 » 23 Jun 2010, 19:58

FINALS Cognis vs. Scherbchen
Cognis +2 pts
Scherbechen +2 pts

Match 1: Playing as Cognis
Game 1: Two Kor Skyfisher rule the game. Nothing special happened. 1-0.
Game 2: Long game, but no NO anywhere. Creature trench warfare ends when Sarkhan Vol goes nuts. 2-0.

Match 2: Playing as Scherbechen
Game 1: Decent hand. I draw two Progenitus in a row to my hand, but luckily Jace comes to aid and Brainstorms them back to deck and gives me NO. Three attacks. 1-0.
Game 2: Easy win. AI starts to play after turn 6 and that's way too late. 2-0.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby Shantak » 23 Jun 2010, 20:03

FINALS Cognis vs. Scherbchen

Scherbchen vs. Cognis (AI) 2-0, Scherbchen +2 points
I mulligan once to get a hand with green mana (two islands don't do much good when the idea is to win with Natural Order). AI has mana problems, only one land. I beat with (Exalted) Coiling Oracle and win with a Garruk-enhanced alpha strike. Lucky victory since AI had just one land, but I managed without a Progenitus :)
1-0

Second game is a slow victory, as I'm only able to deal decent damage late in game once I Natural Order Progenitus into the battlefield.
2-0

Cognis vs. Scherbchen (AI) 2-0, Cognis +2 points
I beat with early Tarmogoyf and Path of Exile my own Kor Skyfisher when AI tries to Control Magic it, liking the fact that I'll soon have six lands for Dragonmaster Outcast I'm holding in my hand. On the sixth turn, AI has nothing in play but six lands. I'm saving two removals for any green creatures it might target with Natural Order. When my sixth land hits play, I alreay have a Scute Mob that's collecting counters. Then, I notice that I haven't got a chance to play a removal between when AI's Oracle hits play and when AI casts Natural Order (which has sacrifice in its cost, not effect). I guess that might be how the rules work with cards as well, but I'm not too clear on the priorities. Well, despite Progenitus, I can get enough damage through to kill AI.
1-0

I StoP AI's first turn Noble Hierarch and see his second turn Coiling Oracle hands him Progenitus (hopefully he has both of them in hand). AI is stuck in three lands and I'm beating with three mid-size creatures. Soon he's dead with no Natural Order in hand (he cast Control Magic when he hit four mana)
2-0


Nice games with great decks. In three of these games I seemed to be lucky because of AI's bad draws (either no mana or nothing but mana), but that's Magic.

I'm in no position to ask for cards, but if someone wants an idea of which card to ask, I would have Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind in top of my list. Surely it has no place in a tournament such as this, but for me the greatest enjoyment in Manalink is to build casual decks with fun combos and then kick AI's ass. Niv-Mizzet would work great there.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby aww1979 » 23 Jun 2010, 20:27

jatill wrote:@aww
For future tournaments, am I allowed to build decks that exploit known bugs? For example, Emrakul + Elvish Piper (based on the above appromixation)?

Also, should I avoid exploiting bugs when playing the AI? Ex, am I allowed to Disenchant a Planeswalker? Where do I draw the line between a bug and tricking the AI since I know when it will make a terrible play (ex: pumping Figure of Destiny after blockers)?
I'm not sure :p When I was playing, I avoided doing anything that would have been illegal in real life, like disenchanting a planeswalker or building a deck around hybrid mana costs and Nether Void, for instance. (ingame, the hybrid cards don't have their costs modified by cards like that for whatever reason) In the May tournament, I also did not submit a Darksteel Colossus cascade deck when I learned that you could cascade into it :p (I had that happen in one of my silly 499 card decks, that's why both those were in the same deck to begin with)

I did do things like Figure of Destiny in combat because in real life that would be legal, even though most humans wouldn't fall for that trick after seeing it once, and probably not even then. If a play would be 100% legal in real life, even if the AI is being a complete dumbass, I'd say go for it.

As for abusing approximations, I'd probably frown upon a deck that was obviously abusing some mechanic, like the hybrid costs + stuff like Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance, etc, but if you are ingame and have a chance to disenchant a planeswalker, you might as well go for it, since the AI would do it, too.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby Cognis » 23 Jun 2010, 21:07

I'll choose Chainer's Edict and Tyrgon Predator as rewards. If Tyrgon Predator is already selected I'll let Aww1979 select the card as a thank you for hosting these tournaments which are so much fun. Thnx man
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby Yggdrasil » 23 Jun 2010, 22:11

Final match

Cognis vs AI Scherbchen 0-2 (Scherbchen +5)
Round 1 : Had to mulligan, and after a long hesitation, chose to start with only one land (savannah) but three removals in hand. It was a bad choice, I draw my second land only in the fourth turn. It was too late, I had no more removal and AI could use Natural Order on his 4th creature.
Round 2 : I hesitated to mulligan again, but finally kept my hand (no removals but 3 lands of different colors, 3 Wild Nacatl and a Kitchen Finks). AI played a turn 3 Progenitus. I would have win if AI didn't use Force of Will against my Kitchen Finks (+2 life and one more turn would be enough for my little army), but the Finks was countered. Sorry Cognis. :(

Scherbchen vs AI Cognis 2-0 (Scherbchen +2)
Round 1 : turn 4 Progenitus
Round 2 : turn 4 Progenitus again.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)

Postby discoransom » 24 Jun 2010, 00:02

sorry I don't have notes on these

Scherbchen wins 2-1

The loss was due to keeping a six-hander with draw and Finks, and not finding N.O. The wins were straight forward Proggy on turn 3 and 4

Cognis Loss 1-2

All three games ended up being blowouts with very interesting early turns. I couldn't keep the AI off 4 mana or green creatures, and beatdown was stopped by control magic and force of will.

Scherbchen- 4 points
Cognis- :oops:

Congrats to both of you guys. Two very nice decks.
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