different Limited idea
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different Limited idea
by Salbei » 16 Dec 2010, 14:52
An idea for a different "Limited" Tournament:
You got 50 (just an example) points to buy cards.
Common cards cost 1
Uncommons cost 3
Rare cards cost 6
After you "bought" the cards you build your 40 (or 60) card deck out of them.
Basic lands are free and people might also get a Planeswalker of their choice ontop (just an example).
Just an idea to keep things interesting.
so with 50 points available the outcome could look like this:
The 50 points in that example are really "tight" so we might want to slightly increase that a little.Was just an example afterall to show you what i have in mind.
The C/U/R list has got to be quite balanced and requires a lot of fine tuning.Its what makes or breaks this thing.
What do you think about the general idea?Is it too complex ?
You got 50 (just an example) points to buy cards.
Common cards cost 1
Uncommons cost 3
Rare cards cost 6
- example C/U/R list | Open
After you "bought" the cards you build your 40 (or 60) card deck out of them.
Basic lands are free and people might also get a Planeswalker of their choice ontop (just an example).
Just an idea to keep things interesting.
so with 50 points available the outcome could look like this:
- example buys | Open
The 50 points in that example are really "tight" so we might want to slightly increase that a little.Was just an example afterall to show you what i have in mind.
The C/U/R list has got to be quite balanced and requires a lot of fine tuning.Its what makes or breaks this thing.
What do you think about the general idea?Is it too complex ?
Last edited by Salbei on 16 Dec 2010, 15:21, edited 1 time in total.
Retired a long time ago. I will not reply.
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Re: different Limited idea
by jatill » 16 Dec 2010, 15:20
The tricky part is knowing what rarity things are. There are several wrong rarities in your example. (ex: Sol Ring and Mind Sludge are uncommon, not rare)
Apps by jatill: http://www.slightlymagic.net/wiki/Other_Apps_by_jatill
Re: different Limited idea
by Salbei » 16 Dec 2010, 15:23
Hehe i know. I didn´t mean the actual rarity of the cards.
In that example list Sol Ring is ment to be a "Rare" (worth a lot of points) just for the sake of that tournament and to "balance" the card somehow.
Theoreticly you could play 2 or 3 Sol Ring without endangering the overall tournament balance. And that is the beauty about that list.
That C/U/R list has got to have a really good balance.But thats a different point.
This also would be another "skill indicator" to spot cards that are "too cheap".
"Gamebreakers" shouldn´t be too cheap to acquire and it is really tough to create a balanced list.Maintaining the balance is getting harder and harder with each new card you add to the list.The list i´ve posted there was just an example of how you could mix different sets and try to balance things out.
Fork shouldn´t be an uncommon, but i had a bit of trouble to get a 4th card that is "worth" the uncommon slot and not strong enough to be a rare.
Juzam Djinn is a common in that list. Pretty much just to keep the matches fast paced. There is enough cheap removal to handle it and also a bunch of creatures who are "immune" to him.
Things like Baneslayer Angel are also tough to include since you either got a few cards to "counter" it or plain die to it.
Mulldrifter is quite a lot stronger in that list than it would be normal since there almost no other creatures with flying in there.You can create some very neat scenarios with these lists -> check out Angel of Mercy , usually nobody would use this one but in that format it would be a decent choice.You turn a mediocore card into a pretty good one just by adjusting the other available cards.
I even included Eron the Relentless - a card that i NEVER have played with before and i got a pretty good feeling that someone who picks it will have a good time with it.
Overall it is tough to create a balanced list. How do you compare Regrowth , Rancor and Tarmogoyf ? All of them are good cards - but they got nothing in common where you could say this one should be a rare and this one should be common.
If you include too many "stall" cards, then it is going to be a boring stallfest.
If you include too many "power" cards , then it is going to be pure luck based.
Afterall that C/U/R list is what could make this Tournament very interesting or a complete failure. So a decent list is really needed for this.As long as everything is not completly imbalanced then it is going to be fun.People get to choose their deck afterall and everyone has got the same choices what cards to play with.It is going to be extremly unlikly that 2 persons will play even a simmilar deck unless the list is obviously flawed.
You could use a C/U/R list that consists of the least used cards and will be surprised how much fun it is going to be.
In that example list Sol Ring is ment to be a "Rare" (worth a lot of points) just for the sake of that tournament and to "balance" the card somehow.
Theoreticly you could play 2 or 3 Sol Ring without endangering the overall tournament balance. And that is the beauty about that list.
That C/U/R list has got to have a really good balance.But thats a different point.
This also would be another "skill indicator" to spot cards that are "too cheap".
"Gamebreakers" shouldn´t be too cheap to acquire and it is really tough to create a balanced list.Maintaining the balance is getting harder and harder with each new card you add to the list.The list i´ve posted there was just an example of how you could mix different sets and try to balance things out.
Fork shouldn´t be an uncommon, but i had a bit of trouble to get a 4th card that is "worth" the uncommon slot and not strong enough to be a rare.
Juzam Djinn is a common in that list. Pretty much just to keep the matches fast paced. There is enough cheap removal to handle it and also a bunch of creatures who are "immune" to him.
Things like Baneslayer Angel are also tough to include since you either got a few cards to "counter" it or plain die to it.
Mulldrifter is quite a lot stronger in that list than it would be normal since there almost no other creatures with flying in there.You can create some very neat scenarios with these lists -> check out Angel of Mercy , usually nobody would use this one but in that format it would be a decent choice.You turn a mediocore card into a pretty good one just by adjusting the other available cards.
I even included Eron the Relentless - a card that i NEVER have played with before and i got a pretty good feeling that someone who picks it will have a good time with it.
Overall it is tough to create a balanced list. How do you compare Regrowth , Rancor and Tarmogoyf ? All of them are good cards - but they got nothing in common where you could say this one should be a rare and this one should be common.
If you include too many "stall" cards, then it is going to be a boring stallfest.
If you include too many "power" cards , then it is going to be pure luck based.
Afterall that C/U/R list is what could make this Tournament very interesting or a complete failure. So a decent list is really needed for this.As long as everything is not completly imbalanced then it is going to be fun.People get to choose their deck afterall and everyone has got the same choices what cards to play with.It is going to be extremly unlikly that 2 persons will play even a simmilar deck unless the list is obviously flawed.
You could use a C/U/R list that consists of the least used cards and will be surprised how much fun it is going to be.
Retired a long time ago. I will not reply.
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Salbei - DEVELOPER
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Re: different Limited idea
by juzamjedi » 17 Dec 2010, 02:43
Your proposal is very interesting. I definitely like the idea and am already thinking up how I would game the system. 
It would be hard to balance this out correctly. Suppose for a second we use the "normal" rarity of all cards to determine cost (ignoring reprints at different rarity like Serra Angel).
Suppose we limit card choices to only the pool of cards you selected. Mulldrifter and Lightning Bolt look undervalued in this card pool. I agree that this is something that should be skill testing and that's the whole point of a tournament like this one. This is a good thing.
I think your proposal to come up with your own points system makes more sense overall. Seeing where my values might be different from yours is the most interesting part of this idea. However, you should state the 4 card limit - assuming you want that to apply? Not sure if you did.
If you are going to do this you might as well have another level for Mythic power level creatures and spells. This way you can allow all cards in Manalink to be used, but have a very high cost for the best cards. Baneslayer Angel, Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Ancestral Recall are clearly Mythic for example.
Creating your own points system is awesome and I think you will do a better job than simply using the default "rarity" of a card. The other really cool thing is if we did this a second time we can "upgrade" spells or creatures later if they were played a lot or "downgrade" cards that don't get enough love.
It would be hard to balance this out correctly. Suppose for a second we use the "normal" rarity of all cards to determine cost (ignoring reprints at different rarity like Serra Angel).
- Example of why using normal rarity, all cards is bad | Open
Suppose we limit card choices to only the pool of cards you selected. Mulldrifter and Lightning Bolt look undervalued in this card pool. I agree that this is something that should be skill testing and that's the whole point of a tournament like this one. This is a good thing.
- Example deck using Salbei's C/U/R list | Open
- Example deck that actually sticks to 4x limit | Open
I think your proposal to come up with your own points system makes more sense overall. Seeing where my values might be different from yours is the most interesting part of this idea. However, you should state the 4 card limit - assuming you want that to apply? Not sure if you did.
If you are going to do this you might as well have another level for Mythic power level creatures and spells. This way you can allow all cards in Manalink to be used, but have a very high cost for the best cards. Baneslayer Angel, Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Ancestral Recall are clearly Mythic for example.
Creating your own points system is awesome and I think you will do a better job than simply using the default "rarity" of a card. The other really cool thing is if we did this a second time we can "upgrade" spells or creatures later if they were played a lot or "downgrade" cards that don't get enough love.
Re: different Limited idea
by jatill » 17 Dec 2010, 13:12
The game has the AI Base vaule, would could be used, perhaps.
Apps by jatill: http://www.slightlymagic.net/wiki/Other_Apps_by_jatill
Re: different Limited idea
by Salbei » 17 Dec 2010, 20:46
Sorry i didn´t mention it, the 4 card rule should obviously included.
I´ll try to work out a "working" list that should be ready for februrary unless somebody else wants to host that tournament.
I´ll try to work out a "working" list that should be ready for februrary unless somebody else wants to host that tournament.
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Salbei - DEVELOPER
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