How do i share 3 decks tailored to the mad AI's limitations?
Posted: 22 Apr 2018, 18:33
This is only my second post to the forums so apologies for everything I might be doing wrong
First off, here's my question: would anyone be interested to try out 3 decks specifically tailored for the mad computer, so it will play with a slightly better chance of winning against you?
And if so, what's the best way of making those decks available here: some type of download link like a handle to a google drive file, or an attachment appended to a post, or just the entire card lists as whole posts?
Here's the background story: For all kinds of reasons, with most decks the mad computer hardly ever wins against a human opponent. If it does win then it's typically because the human player happened to be super unlucky with mana development (= drawing lands only, or none at all). As a fun challenge, I've been spending some time playing against the AI by giving it various AI-limitations-tailored decks to see if it can nevertheless make a reasonably effective sparring partner, for testing my "legit" decks against a bit more seriously than just for early mana issues.
There seem to be three sets of issues with the AI:
1) It's almost completely compulsively rule-based = immediately executes a programmed set of very simple rules without first evaluating the outcome of its actions or considering alternatives to see if it will come out ahead or not. In that sense it's not intelligent but rather an automaton.
2) Some cards simply won't be played correctly, because the AI either makes no meaningful choice, or it chooses completely randomly rather than picking the obviously best option.
3) Quite a few decks will cause the AI to crash in a recognizable pattern, where it first slows down significantly by taking forever to complete the phases of its own turn, then freezes up completely while its timer stops counting down. Once frozen it won't recover until my laptop is completely rebooted. Quitting and restarting mageframe after it's gone into slow mode but before the freeze happens doesn't help either, that too requires a full reboot to fix.
For issue (1) an example of a very simple compulsive rule is: if the card text includes the verb "may" then the AI always carries out the effect or option specified after "may". If it has Necropede and other creatures out on the battlefield while the human opponent has none, then destroying Necropede always results in the AI putting a -1/-1 counter on one of its own remaining creatures.
Two examples of issue (2): If the AI's opening hand includes a land that requires sacrificing land or returning land to its hand, it will play the condition-limited land and then immediately destroy/return it. For the return-a-land-to-your-hand type, it will keep trying turn after turn so it never gets anywhere with its mana development. Or if a card requires making a choice like a particular color for protection, or a creature type that will be affected, then the AI often chooses randomly. It plays Council Guardian by picking a random color, so the guardian often ends up with protection from a color that no player is actually playing with.
Other cards or effects won't get played at all, most notably the AI never does any spell countering. (1) + (2) means the AI cannot play counter-based control decks effectively at all. Certain decks with lots of blue cards might still work for it (lots of flying creatures and permanent-tapping/returning effects?) but I haven't tried that route at all yet.
It would be fun if the AI could be made smarter in future updates of xmage, but that's not a criticism. All the massive work that goes into continuously improving the xmage platform and adding/fixing cards is an amazing achievement, and obviously takes priority.
In fact, I'm happy to deal with the mad computer as is and treat it more like a deck-building puzzle: what exactly are the rules it adheres to, which decks stay out of server-freezing trouble, and is it possible to create decks for it that will be reasonably effective despite its complete lack of choice-making and forward-thinking abilities?
Obviously that means picking cards with minimal shoot-in-the-foot potential due to its type (1) compulsions, as well as leaving out all cards which cause type (2) issues. Not ideal, but there are so many other cards that are trouble-free, so it doesn't really have to hold back the mad AI from scoring wins at least some of the time. The freeze issue is harder to deal with. It crops up quite often and even when testing some very similar red-heavy decks I haven't been able to pinpoint why one deck doesn't cause the AI to freeze frequently while another does. So that has turned out to be a process of elimination by trial & error.
On the plus side, there nevertheless are quite a few decks with which the AI can hold its own in one out of three games or better, even against a moderately intelligent opponent (myself) playing all kinds of super duper multi-choice cards or carefully timed effects. The 3 decks I've been sparring with that are largely free of the freezing issue, and capable of averaging 1 win out of every 3 games against my better "legit" decks are a green-black poison/deathtouch deck with rapid mana growth, a black-green zombie deck with lots of pumping and graveyard effects, and a reasonably fast red/white deck with decent capabilities for burn and haste damage.
First off, here's my question: would anyone be interested to try out 3 decks specifically tailored for the mad computer, so it will play with a slightly better chance of winning against you?
And if so, what's the best way of making those decks available here: some type of download link like a handle to a google drive file, or an attachment appended to a post, or just the entire card lists as whole posts?
Here's the background story: For all kinds of reasons, with most decks the mad computer hardly ever wins against a human opponent. If it does win then it's typically because the human player happened to be super unlucky with mana development (= drawing lands only, or none at all). As a fun challenge, I've been spending some time playing against the AI by giving it various AI-limitations-tailored decks to see if it can nevertheless make a reasonably effective sparring partner, for testing my "legit" decks against a bit more seriously than just for early mana issues.
There seem to be three sets of issues with the AI:
1) It's almost completely compulsively rule-based = immediately executes a programmed set of very simple rules without first evaluating the outcome of its actions or considering alternatives to see if it will come out ahead or not. In that sense it's not intelligent but rather an automaton.
2) Some cards simply won't be played correctly, because the AI either makes no meaningful choice, or it chooses completely randomly rather than picking the obviously best option.
3) Quite a few decks will cause the AI to crash in a recognizable pattern, where it first slows down significantly by taking forever to complete the phases of its own turn, then freezes up completely while its timer stops counting down. Once frozen it won't recover until my laptop is completely rebooted. Quitting and restarting mageframe after it's gone into slow mode but before the freeze happens doesn't help either, that too requires a full reboot to fix.
For issue (1) an example of a very simple compulsive rule is: if the card text includes the verb "may" then the AI always carries out the effect or option specified after "may". If it has Necropede and other creatures out on the battlefield while the human opponent has none, then destroying Necropede always results in the AI putting a -1/-1 counter on one of its own remaining creatures.
Two examples of issue (2): If the AI's opening hand includes a land that requires sacrificing land or returning land to its hand, it will play the condition-limited land and then immediately destroy/return it. For the return-a-land-to-your-hand type, it will keep trying turn after turn so it never gets anywhere with its mana development. Or if a card requires making a choice like a particular color for protection, or a creature type that will be affected, then the AI often chooses randomly. It plays Council Guardian by picking a random color, so the guardian often ends up with protection from a color that no player is actually playing with.
Other cards or effects won't get played at all, most notably the AI never does any spell countering. (1) + (2) means the AI cannot play counter-based control decks effectively at all. Certain decks with lots of blue cards might still work for it (lots of flying creatures and permanent-tapping/returning effects?) but I haven't tried that route at all yet.
It would be fun if the AI could be made smarter in future updates of xmage, but that's not a criticism. All the massive work that goes into continuously improving the xmage platform and adding/fixing cards is an amazing achievement, and obviously takes priority.
In fact, I'm happy to deal with the mad computer as is and treat it more like a deck-building puzzle: what exactly are the rules it adheres to, which decks stay out of server-freezing trouble, and is it possible to create decks for it that will be reasonably effective despite its complete lack of choice-making and forward-thinking abilities?
Obviously that means picking cards with minimal shoot-in-the-foot potential due to its type (1) compulsions, as well as leaving out all cards which cause type (2) issues. Not ideal, but there are so many other cards that are trouble-free, so it doesn't really have to hold back the mad AI from scoring wins at least some of the time. The freeze issue is harder to deal with. It crops up quite often and even when testing some very similar red-heavy decks I haven't been able to pinpoint why one deck doesn't cause the AI to freeze frequently while another does. So that has turned out to be a process of elimination by trial & error.
On the plus side, there nevertheless are quite a few decks with which the AI can hold its own in one out of three games or better, even against a moderately intelligent opponent (myself) playing all kinds of super duper multi-choice cards or carefully timed effects. The 3 decks I've been sparring with that are largely free of the freezing issue, and capable of averaging 1 win out of every 3 games against my better "legit" decks are a green-black poison/deathtouch deck with rapid mana growth, a black-green zombie deck with lots of pumping and graveyard effects, and a reasonably fast red/white deck with decent capabilities for burn and haste damage.