Shandalar Strategies

[jatill]

I usually play Shandalar the same way every time, and I'm curious what strategies other people use.

No matter what deck I start with, I usually morph into the 4 Contract + 4 Dark Ritual deck, usually with some combination of Paralyze, Terror, and Weakness to fend of the computer's free creatures in the castles.

The only other deck I ever try is the white deck with 4 Swords to Plowshares and 4 Spirit link for the same reason.

Have people tried other strategies? It seems like with the AI getting a free first turn Hypnotic Specter in the Black castle, you don't have a ton of choices.

Other random questions:

1) Do you cheat in Shandalar? I.e. do you restart if you lose a duel? When I first played the game I'd cheat constantly. The most recent time I promised myself I wouldn't, but then I lost 4 cards in 1 game due to casting multiple Contracts, and was too lazy to re-earn them.

2) Do you bother doing the mini-dungeons? I've tried these a few times, but don't bother any more since most cards can be gotten from Antes anyway (and none are necessary anyway). When I did do them, though, I'd load up on Ivory Tower and get to 100 life in the first duel before proceeding.

3) So, Blue gets Leviathian. I find this to be a liability more often than not, since it'll eat 4 lands before I Terror it. What would be a good replacement, if some coder wanted to change that particular feature?

[aww1979]

If you want a quick and dirty win, make a black vise deck. Usually it'll start out as some kind of weenie deck with a few vises thrown in (merfolk or goblins or whatever, depending on colour) but eventually it will degenerate into this monstrosity with like 15 black vises and $10000 of moxes, time walks, and so on.

White weenie with spirit links works great in dungeons (and I always do all the dungeons, since I'm a sucker for the restricted cards) and sometimes I'll actually switch decks from the world map to dungeon and make a WW/spirit link deck just for them.

After too many cheap wins with black vise decks, I do something different every time now, though I haven't touched Shandalar since finding out about Mok's original expansion. I've done Rack deck (mind twists/balance for the discard, and mostly cheap mana costing artifacts to maximize balance card advantage), merfolk deck, goblin deck, marsh viper deck, a deck theme I call 'black power' (hypnotic specters, sengirs, that sort of thing, basically a monoblack beatdown), and heck knows what else. Not all of them killed Arzakon, but quite a few did. And we won't go into the 'tempest efreet' deck... :p That deck was hilarious, though that card has many bugs, which in some cases was part of why it was so funny. It got really sick when I went against mind stealer and he cloned my deck, I probably stole enough cards I could've bought a house if I'd sold those cards IRL.

The more recent decks I'd make multicolour, since the first few years I had this game, every shandalar deck was always 100% monocoloured. I'll always at least splash black for contract of below/demonic tutor and blue for ancestrals/time walks, but other than that, it's a different experience every time.

The funniest duel against Arzakon was my degenerate vise deck, where I purposely prolonged the game just to get an even better deck. I mulliganed seven mox sapphires (!!!) and got seven again :p For the next six turns, I drew mox sapphires, (them and lotuses/sol rings were all my mana, I had no lands anymore) while I started getting my arse handed to me. Then, I drew an ancestral recall. Half an hour later (still that same turn, not counting time walking), a dozen black vises processed for about 40 damage each, and arzakon went from 400 to negative lots in one upkeep :p

1) I used to cheat when I lost a restricted card, but when you get the DotP/SotA expansion, you can find restricted cards in the random encounters in the world map, so I quit doing that, even if I had just lost my only copy. You could find rarely the 4th ed restricted cards like balance in the basic edition, but never a mox or something like in the expansions.

2) Always, unless a dungeon is really stupid, like a lone Feldon's Cane. I'll try to hit up ones first that have cards that are not in any decks, like library of alexandria, or nonpermanents, that you can't hit with bronze tablet. (tempest efreet is more luck-dependent, and the RRR cost isn't always viable in some decks, though black lotus makes even this card splashable sometimes)

3) I'd have to think about that one. They probably all need to change, at least on the hardcore setting. Red gets mana flare, which helps you just as much, black gets greed and green gets sylvan library, which would be great if the AI used them intelligently, and I have never ever been attacked by an elder land wurm. Leviathan is pretty bad, too, as Jatill said. I'd personally redo all 5 if it were possible. If the new cards ever get ported into shandalar, I would humbly suggest using the Hondens in the castles, along with the creatures they usually get. They don't suck, and it's hard to screw them up, even for the AI. The lower level AIs actually use better cards in the castles, but they're all colour hosers, so sometimes they don't affect you at all. (magnetic mountain, for instance)

[thedrigo]

I always start out with some combination of red/black. Red has quick creatures and quick creature removal to end games quickly. If games do stall -and they tend to against the "stronger" creatures-, you can use big black fliers to eat away at your opponents life total or accumulate mana for a nasty red X-cost sorcery. This scheme is always the start for me... I then slowly switch over to a blue-white, creatureless control deck. I gather a ton of Howling Mines, Black Vises and Strip Mines to kill opponents quickly. Since 95% of the opposing decks are creature decks, multiple Moats, Swords to Plowshares and Wraths of God completely hose opposing strategies.

Usually, my finished deck ends up looking something like this:
(I disregard most deckbuilding rules and the restricted list when playing Shandalar, though)

6 or 7 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
2 or 3 Scrublands
Multitudes of Moxen and Black Loti
4 Sol Rings

5 or more Howling Mine
6 or 7 Black Vise
4 Ivory Tower
3 or 4 Moat
4 Wrath of God
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Timetwister
4 Time Walk
4 Ancestral Recall
4 Contract from Below
4 Demonic Tutor
2 Time Elemental
2 or 3 Armageddon
Maybe 1 or 2 Serra Angel / Vesuvan Doppleganger
3 Braingeyser

With this build, games are very short. Even Arzakon goes down within 10 turns.

I dunno if it helps or not... I know that its easier with multiple copies of restricted cards, but it's also a lot more work taking the time to get them all.

Then again, i enjoy shutting down the opponent and watch him take 40+ damage every upkeep. Like it's been so adequately said before me, add tons of copies of Black Vise and games will be over QUICK. hahaha...

EDIT: I realized that wrote a bunch of crap and didn't really answer any of Jatill's questions so here we go:

1) I do, but mostly because I'm OCD about symmetry in my deck and therefore find it very annoying when something is missing and I'm really, REALLY lazy when it comes to getting crap that I lost back. In general, I shouldn't do it as much as I do.

2) I like to do them because I enjoy the challenge presented by carrying over your lost life (provided you don't have 200 points gotten from the first duel in the dungeon)and seeing if you can still get everything out of there without dying. I really don't care about the cards, like Jatill said, I just like killing everyone in there.

3) I completely agree. I can always find an answer to Leviathan and watching the AI sac 4 lands to have it try and attack you makes the blue castle way too easy. I think it'd be totally worth it to raise the bar with either something like an Air Elemental, a Serendib Efreet or some beefy aggro creature or a strong utility creature like an Archivist or a Thieveing Magpie (if possible to implement).

[somacat]

Most of the strategies I use have well covered by the previous two posts. Sometimes when I get bored, I'll just use the Time Elemental + Tempest Efreet or Bronze Tablet combo to steal a bunch of expensive cards, then sell any I don't want off in a town somewhere and hunt for one of those 'special areas' where you can buy any (non-restricted) cards you want, before hunting out the castles and Arzakon.

I like to use different decks against Arzakon, although when I first played I always used a UW control deck quite similar to thedrigo's. I once spent hours playing the Time Elemental / Tempest Efreet / Timetwister deck to play as much of Arzakon's deck as I could, only it crashed before I could steal his whole deck and deck him .

As far as cheating goes, I used to, before any of the expansions came out, when I lost an Ancestral or Time Walk, etc, as those cards were harder to come by then (couldn't win them in ante). But I don't really anymore, there's not usually much reason to.

And as far as the blue castle boss, there aren't really many good choices without updating the card pool. Old Man of the Sea, Serendib Efreet, Time Elemental, maybe Flood? Serendib Efreet (or Phantom Monster) is probably the best choice, because it at least has the chance to do *something* vs a semi-playable deck; but it doesn't have much synergy with the boss' Stasis deck. Hondens are a great idea if implemented, and Frozen Aether would be quite good too (although does white get Kismet? I can't remember).

[Bog Wraith]

I've played Shandalar consistently since its debut and I've played it every conceivable way. I play all the colours and approach them according to their strengths. I will also change up the secondary colours in the deck with each new campaign.

There are times I will, for instance, play with blue as a main, and build decks that create landwalkers & protection from all colours using Magical Hacks and Sleight of Minds. Mixing up things in this way helps to keep the games challenging and fun, especially at the beginning of a new game when your life totals are low. I do this for each of the 5 colours, looking to build decks around their traits and complimenting them with cards of other colours that help to accentuate these traits.
I also go to all of the dungeons and any side duels.

I really wish we could incorporate the new cards into Shandalar as it would make Shandalar a completely new experience. If there is one thing I would like to see even more then the 2000 card limit broken, at least in the short term, it would be this!

No matter, I have played the game non stop for close to 12 years now and I never get tired of it, approaching it in thses different and variant ways of playing!

[jatill]

Random question. How do you get more than 4 copies of a card in your decks? The limit starts at 3, and you can get a world magic to make it 4. Then what?

[aww1979]

Random question. How do you get more than 4 copies of a card in your decks? The limit starts at 3, and you can get a world magic to make it 4. Then what?

That's true only for smaller decks. Once your deck is at least 60 cards, and you have that tome of knowledge or whatever it's called, you can have an infinite number of any card. If you don't have that tome, at 60 cards, your deck can have 4 max of any nonbasic land card. Somewhere there's a help file in the magic directory that tells you how many copies of a card you can have based on deck size with and without the tome.

[EviL_CLonE]

That's true. Buy the Tome of Enlightenment when you have the chance and you will be able to add another copy of the card to your deck.

[carletto1979]

1. START
I start with a White mage just because of the initial World Spell, something you can't live without on Wizard difficulty (because every conquered castle is -1 mana link.. and it's quite hard to reach far places with green or blue gem spells).
I like to play hardcore: I never load the previous game even if I lose great cards or mana links. This adds a lot to the game!

2. BEGINNING: TRAVELLING A LOT
Initially I visit the more town I can trying to minimize my deck size and colors. I don't necessarly stick to white.. I stick to the color/s with the nicer findings (and, initially, lands!).
The only quests I take are those where I can get mana links or white gems. I buy good World Spells when available and food @ 15.

3. READY FOR THE ACTION
When I feel ready, I start to wander in the terrain type where I can find enemies of my same color; in this way, killing them I'll more likely earn usefull cards for my deck. Knowing my enemies, I "sideboard" my deck the best I can.

4. I'M RICH: SEARCHING FOR A GEM SELLER AND A CARD SELLER
When I'm full of money, I travel searching secret bushes, wrecked ships and all that stuff. I just wait for two main events: a gem seller (where I spend all my money on 200$ white gems), and a card seller (where I buy the best cards and construct an invincible deck; I also buy appropriate "sideboard" cards for the five castles).

5. FARMING TIME
Now I only need those valuable cards not available in stores. Mox, Lotus, Ancestral recall, Time walk, Juzam Djinn, Sol Ring, etc. I get those in two main ways: one of them is exploring dungeons; an ivory tower usually solves the "no life gain" problem. The second way to get those super cards is equipping me with the best card-stealer stuff (Tempest Efreet, Bronze Tablet, Demonic Attorney..), and fighting every big dude I find on my way.

6. TO THE FINAL BATTLE: THE FIVE CASTLES
I do the five castles; with an adeguate sideboarding none of them is a problem at this point. If the black one gives me problems with the first turn hypnotic spectres, I build a white wheenie with 4 sword to plowshares and 4 exorcists.
In the final battle I try to make more than 400 damages in some creative way.

[sodtiwaz]

I almost always start out white for two reasons, number 1 reason is the worldmagic you start with (it's amazingly good). Number 2 reasons is WW was king in the day for a reason Swords to Plowshares, Savannah lions, Crusade, White Knight, Thunder Spirit, Abu Ja'far, etc. Back when the game was brand new I experimented with each starting color and fed to their strengths but now I generally stick with white.

carletto1979 has my basic strategy down pretty well. I personally always take dungeon clues no matter what until they're no longer offered. This was mainly due to the fact that I played the original game with no expansions for a very long time. I always do the dungeons as well even if the cards are attainable elsewhere why not get extra.

I always leave the blue and black wizards up until I have at very least 4 of every important card this is due to the fact that shapeshifters duplicate cards about 50% of the time, and will occasionally copy your deck which means I can steal cards I want during the game.

Some Decks I use (not verbatim but a good idea)

4 Ivory Tower
4 Black Vise
3 Manabarbs
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Howling Mine
2 Black Lotus
4 Mox Ruby
4 Mox Pearl
4 Mox Sapphire
4 Timetwister
4 Ancestral Recall

I generally run an ante deck when I'm roaming around to steal as many cards as I can but sometimes I get bored and try something different like stasis or kobolds or whatever.

I "cheat" now but not by reloading a loss so much as saving before one of the sunken ships so I can reload it for a gem seller or whatever I need at the moment.


I thought blue got whimsy (which was annoying as hell) maybe they changed it. My vote would be for Mahamoti Djinn

[FallenOne]

My main strategy is to start on Wizard with one colour and use only that colour and Artifacts. If the initial colour is really bad, I may start with 2 colours and change to mono-colour as soon as possible. I don't sideboard for Castles or creatures. I may sideboard some life gain for dungeons depending on my starting colour.

Early game: sell all bad off-colour and non-Artifact cards in a City. Buy all cards in Towns and resell bad ones in Cities to make gold quickly. Avoid duels and buy a weenie deck through Towns and/or a Lair where you can buy all non-restricted cards. I will usually end up buying Black Vise, Strip Mine and Mishra Factories in the early game.

Mid-game: refine my deck by seeking out enemies in my colour by going to the appropriate terrain. Collect Mana Links and Amulets. Collect all World Magics. I may seek out Tusk Guardians for Ivory Towers. If playing Black, I may seek out Lord of Fate as he will duplicate non-restricted cards. Continue building my deck through Lairs and then Dungeons.

Late-game: Seek out Elementalists, Conjurers and Mind Stealers to duplicate restricted cards. I may buy and use Bronze Tablets on dragons for Moxen. If playing Red, Tempest Efreet. If playing Black, Demonic Attorney. Buy Amulets at a Lair. Defeat all of the wizards and get all dungeon treasures in the Castles. Defeat Azarkon using a deck with multiples of restricted cards. This may mean 400+ damage, poison counters or decking.

1) I cheat in a variety of ways.
a) If I lose a restricted card, I will reload since it's too time consuming to get a replacement one.
b) I reload to get what I want from a Lair. There are 4 things that I look for
i) a Bazaar to buy non-restricted cards
ii) a Bazaar to buy amulets
iii) a tough opponent with restricted cards
iv) free restricted cards
c) If I'm playing Blue on Wizard, it seems like one dungeon always has Power Struggle and no Instants or Interrupts while another dungeon has Power Struggle and no Artifacts. In those dungeons, if the opponent casts a Mana Vault, I will tap it during my upkeep to speed up the duel. I find Power Struggle very annoying and while beatable, it makes the duels much, much longer than needed (kind of like this post...).

2) I do all of the dungeons and make sure that I get all dungeon treasures. This means that I also fight extra enemies to get to the treasure chests with gold and amulets. I like to be complete. However, I won't kill every single enemy as that would mean even more duels and more chances of mana screw or bad draws. Depending on my colour, I sometimes use life gain (Ivory Tower, Spirit Link, Artifact to gain life when coloured spell is cast).

3) Leviathian isn't that bad. I've seen the computer Twiddle and then sacrifice two lands on turn 2 to attack. Maybe Phantom Monster would be a good starting card that wasn't too overpowered against fair decks.

[klye]

Someone wrote:

I once spent hours playing the Time Elemental / Tempest Efreet / Timetwister deck to play as much of Arzakon's deck as I could, only it crashed before I could steal his whole deck and deck him

------
sooooo how exactly does this work? When you use the tempest Efreet, it goes in his graveyard right?

[aww1979]

Someone wrote:

I once spent hours playing the Time Elemental / Tempest Efreet / Timetwister deck to play as much of Arzakon's deck as I could, only it crashed before I could steal his whole deck and deck him

------
sooooo how exactly does this work? When you use the tempest Efreet, it goes in his graveyard right?

Yes, in real life it works that way, but due to a Shandalar bug, you'll still own the tempest efreet after the duel, AND sometimes you will get multiple copies of the card you took, and sometimes other cards, too. I'm not sure what the Time Elemental is for, though, unless it can bounce the efreet in Shandalar before it resolves, or is just for control to keep stealing cards. Two timetwisters keep you going indefinitely with recursion.

[Salbei]

Guess he is using the card to create a soft lock.
(bouncing everything back to hand untill the AI can only play Moxen and do his single landdrop per turn."just" need 1 Elemental and 8 mana to do this efficiently at the end of the opponents turn.)

I used to do this with the original version too.

[aww1979]

Okay, that makes sense, then. The strategy I would do was to simply Timetwister and Time Walk and not actually give the AI a turn until I'd either taken all the cards I wanted or couldn't continue any longer. Then I'd make the kill.