Updates on the way.
Moderators: BAgate, drool66, Aswan jaguar, gmzombie, stassy, CCGHQ Admins
Re: Updates on the way.
by dingbat1 » 24 Nov 2015, 14:45
Korath,
For the most part, I just want to stay out of your way, and not bother you with any distractions. But, there's something I've been thinking about for a while, and I just want to plant the idea in your head, because it might be easier in the long run for you to be aware of it now.
Eventually, I think it'll be nice to develop mods for Shandalar based on different sets. Recreating the entire world into a plane such as Theros, or Kamigawa, or even the voyage of the Weatherlight.
Most of this is "just" a matter of changing the ini file, creating new decks, changing some graphical elements, and maybe the names of the creatures/wizards (e.g. changing the Black Castle into Erebos's Castle), etc., which non-technical people will be able to do without too much effort from you.
However, for some sets, a few more substantial changes may be highly desirable. While I don't want you to get sidetracked in any way, I think just having these in the back of your head may occasionally allow you to make small adjustments now that could prevent major work down the line. (note that, these may just be a matter of wishful thinking, and may not be feasible in any way)
To keep the list short, here are the things I'm thinking of:
1 - More than 5 castles. Ravnika would benefit from having one for each guild, and Theros with one for each god
2 - Something to allow a 6th "faction". I'm mostly thinking about the Eldrazi as a colorless faction, but this could include Ugin in the Tarkir block, or an artifact faction. I don't mean a 6th castle (see above), but more along the lines having another type of terrain reflective thereof, additional lairs, and/or the creatures walking around.
3 - starting a new game with an old deck. This could allow for sequential story-telling, such as starting in a mod using only cards from Mirrodin, but "winning" exports* the player's deck (and possibly life-total) in a mod using cards from both Mirrodin and Scars of Mirrodin, reflecting the Phyrexian invasion. Another example would be adding the Rise of the Eldrazi to Zendikar. or adding the Return to Ravnika block to the Ravnika mod.
3B - Even better if the player could keep his old cards but no longer be able to acquire additional cards from those sets, so that, for example, after winning the Lorwyn mod the player's deck is exported into the Shadowmoor mod, with the player retaining his cards but unable to get any new Lorwyn cards. Another example would be the conversion of Khans of Tarkir into Dragons of Tarkir.
*Ideally, we'd have world-altering events happening in-game, but I don't think that's feasible; exporting the player's deck, and possibly life total, into the next mod could serve as an approximation.
Again, please, don't waste any time on this now, but if you come across anything that could help turn any of those into reality, please keep it in mind.
For the most part, I just want to stay out of your way, and not bother you with any distractions. But, there's something I've been thinking about for a while, and I just want to plant the idea in your head, because it might be easier in the long run for you to be aware of it now.
Eventually, I think it'll be nice to develop mods for Shandalar based on different sets. Recreating the entire world into a plane such as Theros, or Kamigawa, or even the voyage of the Weatherlight.
Most of this is "just" a matter of changing the ini file, creating new decks, changing some graphical elements, and maybe the names of the creatures/wizards (e.g. changing the Black Castle into Erebos's Castle), etc., which non-technical people will be able to do without too much effort from you.
However, for some sets, a few more substantial changes may be highly desirable. While I don't want you to get sidetracked in any way, I think just having these in the back of your head may occasionally allow you to make small adjustments now that could prevent major work down the line. (note that, these may just be a matter of wishful thinking, and may not be feasible in any way)
To keep the list short, here are the things I'm thinking of:
1 - More than 5 castles. Ravnika would benefit from having one for each guild, and Theros with one for each god
2 - Something to allow a 6th "faction". I'm mostly thinking about the Eldrazi as a colorless faction, but this could include Ugin in the Tarkir block, or an artifact faction. I don't mean a 6th castle (see above), but more along the lines having another type of terrain reflective thereof, additional lairs, and/or the creatures walking around.
3 - starting a new game with an old deck. This could allow for sequential story-telling, such as starting in a mod using only cards from Mirrodin, but "winning" exports* the player's deck (and possibly life-total) in a mod using cards from both Mirrodin and Scars of Mirrodin, reflecting the Phyrexian invasion. Another example would be adding the Rise of the Eldrazi to Zendikar. or adding the Return to Ravnika block to the Ravnika mod.
3B - Even better if the player could keep his old cards but no longer be able to acquire additional cards from those sets, so that, for example, after winning the Lorwyn mod the player's deck is exported into the Shadowmoor mod, with the player retaining his cards but unable to get any new Lorwyn cards. Another example would be the conversion of Khans of Tarkir into Dragons of Tarkir.
*Ideally, we'd have world-altering events happening in-game, but I don't think that's feasible; exporting the player's deck, and possibly life total, into the next mod could serve as an approximation.
Again, please, don't waste any time on this now, but if you come across anything that could help turn any of those into reality, please keep it in mind.
Re: Updates on the way.
by Korath » 24 Nov 2015, 16:04
3 is doable with some effort. 3B can be done right now - load an old savegame with a config file that marks all the old cards as disabled. (You'll still be able to duplicate them with the Mind Stealer reward, but that's about it.)
1 is quite difficult. Early on, I briefly looked into increasing the number of dungeons so I could have more cards be dungeon treasures, and there's a lot of things coupled to the exact number. Castles are in most respects treated as dungeon #0-4, so adding more boils down to the same problem. (Plus I don't know how many other things that I probably won't find until I actually try to do it.) Having some dungeons be completely replaced by castles would make it somewhat easier, but probably not by much.
More creature types: extremely difficult, but already a high priority. Once I'm at the point where I can add any at all, then I'll have already rewritten enough of the old machinery that shuffling them around between colors and power levels and so on won't break things like it will now.
Adding terrain: I wouldn't even know where to start.
More lair types, as in the results you get when you walk onto one: easy. Very easy. Say what you want and, if it either affects duel or is remotely similar to something already in the non-duel game, I can probably do it. Adding a new lair type as displayed on the main map, though, is part of adding new terrain.
1 is quite difficult. Early on, I briefly looked into increasing the number of dungeons so I could have more cards be dungeon treasures, and there's a lot of things coupled to the exact number. Castles are in most respects treated as dungeon #0-4, so adding more boils down to the same problem. (Plus I don't know how many other things that I probably won't find until I actually try to do it.) Having some dungeons be completely replaced by castles would make it somewhat easier, but probably not by much.
More creature types: extremely difficult, but already a high priority. Once I'm at the point where I can add any at all, then I'll have already rewritten enough of the old machinery that shuffling them around between colors and power levels and so on won't break things like it will now.
Adding terrain: I wouldn't even know where to start.
More lair types, as in the results you get when you walk onto one: easy. Very easy. Say what you want and, if it either affects duel or is remotely similar to something already in the non-duel game, I can probably do it. Adding a new lair type as displayed on the main map, though, is part of adding new terrain.
-
Korath - DEVELOPER
- Posts: 3707
- Joined: 02 Jun 2013, 05:57
- Has thanked: 496 times
- Been thanked: 1106 times
Re: Updates on the way.
by dingbat1 » 24 Nov 2015, 17:00
Thank you, that's great to know. You're a star.
For now, I'm just eagerly awaiting your progress. Once a block is (nearly) complete, I'll talk to other people here about creating a mod for that block. Depending on which block, and what the group decides it needs, we'll see how far we can get, or what we need help with.
For now, I'm just eagerly awaiting your progress. Once a block is (nearly) complete, I'll talk to other people here about creating a mod for that block. Depending on which block, and what the group decides it needs, we'll see how far we can get, or what we need help with.
Re: Updates on the way.
by atar » 05 Dec 2015, 20:00
First of all i would like to congratulate you for your hard work and your persistence to update our excellent game! Kudos!
I'm asking a big favor please: Is it possible to download from someone any working latest directory of the manalink? I'm trying to make it work but without any luck.Thank you in advance
I'm asking a big favor please: Is it possible to download from someone any working latest directory of the manalink? I'm trying to make it work but without any luck.Thank you in advance
Re: Updates on the way.
by walrus » 07 Dec 2015, 12:22
Big kudos for Korath and rest of the team. I have now finished Shandalar three times using new sets and it has been fun to revisit my childhood. That being said, I want to suggest a idea for further development. People have been throwing out ideas for re-modding games for different blocks, but I think another good alternative would be creating progressive difficulty level. To put it simply, every opponent would have five different decks. After you have beaten the first deck, the opponent would start to use second one. I think this would benefit base game in two ways:
A) Smoother progression: After certain point, the game just turns into grinding where most opponents can't pose serious threat. We could avoid this kind of grind simply by making opponents constantly getting more and more challenging. Having the deck change would also encourage player to vary between different types of opponents instead of focusing on one or two types.
B) Better use of cardpool: Currently, opponents don't really use extended cardpool at all. Furthermore, many cards are technically worthless because of the better options being available. For this mod, decks could be designed so that each opponent's first deck would be limited to cardpool from Unlimited to Fallen Empires. Second one could use cardpool from 4th ed to Portal. Third one from Weatherlight to Scourge. Fourth one from Mirrodin to Alara Reborn. Fifth one from Zendikar to Journey to Nyx. Vintage decks would be reserved for castles and final battle.
Of course, this would be rather major undertaking, because we would need to design more than 250 different decks and play test them. However, from pure coding standpoint, this might be far more manageable than trying to create new creature types or castles.
A) Smoother progression: After certain point, the game just turns into grinding where most opponents can't pose serious threat. We could avoid this kind of grind simply by making opponents constantly getting more and more challenging. Having the deck change would also encourage player to vary between different types of opponents instead of focusing on one or two types.
B) Better use of cardpool: Currently, opponents don't really use extended cardpool at all. Furthermore, many cards are technically worthless because of the better options being available. For this mod, decks could be designed so that each opponent's first deck would be limited to cardpool from Unlimited to Fallen Empires. Second one could use cardpool from 4th ed to Portal. Third one from Weatherlight to Scourge. Fourth one from Mirrodin to Alara Reborn. Fifth one from Zendikar to Journey to Nyx. Vintage decks would be reserved for castles and final battle.
Of course, this would be rather major undertaking, because we would need to design more than 250 different decks and play test them. However, from pure coding standpoint, this might be far more manageable than trying to create new creature types or castles.
Re: Updates on the way.
by stassy » 07 Dec 2015, 13:17
Did you check lujo Enemy deck brainstorming thread? It should have everything you want plus heavy meta discussion about Shandalar enemies 
- stassy
- Moderator
- Posts: 5274
- Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 07:06
- Has thanked: 471 times
- Been thanked: 337 times
Re: Updates on the way.
by Aswan jaguar » 10 Dec 2015, 18:15
Korath is beside the tribute also broken the deck deduction of ante card when you win the game?
If I am not wrong when you win an opponent he looses the ante card and so if you meet again the same opponent it must have a card less in his deck but that is not happening always.I won Tusk Guardian 3 times in a raw the first time it had 59 cards in the deck and so did the 2nd and so did the 3nd time.
If I am not wrong when you win an opponent he looses the ante card and so if you meet again the same opponent it must have a card less in his deck but that is not happening always.I won Tusk Guardian 3 times in a raw the first time it had 59 cards in the deck and so did the 2nd and so did the 3nd time.
---
Trying to squash some bugs and playtesting.
Trying to squash some bugs and playtesting.
-
Aswan jaguar - Super Tester Elite
- Posts: 8078
- Joined: 13 May 2010, 12:17
- Has thanked: 730 times
- Been thanked: 458 times
Re: Updates on the way.
by lujo » 10 Dec 2015, 19:09
Um, enemies aren't supposed to lose cards permanently, just you? It's bad enough that they have 59 instead of 60, if they kept losing them then guys with nonbasic lands in the deck would just keep getting progressively more mana-screwed the more you played.
Don't tell me there's enemies which permanently lose cards when you beat them, please.
Don't tell me there's enemies which permanently lose cards when you beat them, please.
---
My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
Re: Updates on the way.
by foolosopher » 02 Jan 2016, 20:10
Hello and Happy New and better 2016 to everyone,
Just found out a week ago about Shandalar and been playing ever since. Thanks Korath and everyone helping you for all the hard work and persistence put into this difficult task. Found a few bugs but they were already reported. Although, I 'd say I am experienced in making the various versions floating around manalink work for me, I tried a few different versions but if it weren't for CirothUngol's ready directories, I wouldn't have made shandalar work. I have a couple suggestions, but I saw Lujo is pressing really hard, so I'll wait till things stabilize.
Just found out a week ago about Shandalar and been playing ever since. Thanks Korath and everyone helping you for all the hard work and persistence put into this difficult task. Found a few bugs but they were already reported. Although, I 'd say I am experienced in making the various versions floating around manalink work for me, I tried a few different versions but if it weren't for CirothUngol's ready directories, I wouldn't have made shandalar work. I have a couple suggestions, but I saw Lujo is pressing really hard, so I'll wait till things stabilize.
I long for the time where one man could make a difference...
- foolosopher
- Posts: 189
- Joined: 19 May 2010, 20:53
- Location: Greece
- Has thanked: 13 times
- Been thanked: 17 times
Re: Updates on the way.
by Korath » 04 Jan 2016, 15:31
No, enemies don't lose cards to ante. I've always viewed them as hordes of netdeckers, not the same person being dueled over and over.
Installation should be less agonizing as of the next release, due to the oversized Manalink BFZ patch. At least if you can get Manalink running, which has always been agonizing in itself.
The logistics of that patch means that there's basically no chance of TH4 or NB2 bugfix releases, and I'm undecided whether to continue maintenance of a stable branch in general. On the other hand, it's made it so I can put in cards up through Commander 2015 without waiting for the Manalink versions; so I've been averaging about 150 cards a day since starting work on this again, compared to maybe 30 or 40 a day before. (Not even counting the vanilla ones.)
The next Shandalar release won't be until after Manalink BFZ2, which won't be until after WOTC releases Oath of the Gatewatch at the earliest. Having already gone to the trouble of getting {C} costs working, I definitely don't want to have to wait another year for the next Manalink patch before being able to add those cards here.
Installation should be less agonizing as of the next release, due to the oversized Manalink BFZ patch. At least if you can get Manalink running, which has always been agonizing in itself.
The logistics of that patch means that there's basically no chance of TH4 or NB2 bugfix releases, and I'm undecided whether to continue maintenance of a stable branch in general. On the other hand, it's made it so I can put in cards up through Commander 2015 without waiting for the Manalink versions; so I've been averaging about 150 cards a day since starting work on this again, compared to maybe 30 or 40 a day before. (Not even counting the vanilla ones.)
- Cards since my last post | Open
The next Shandalar release won't be until after Manalink BFZ2, which won't be until after WOTC releases Oath of the Gatewatch at the earliest. Having already gone to the trouble of getting {C} costs working, I definitely don't want to have to wait another year for the next Manalink patch before being able to add those cards here.
-
Korath - DEVELOPER
- Posts: 3707
- Joined: 02 Jun 2013, 05:57
- Has thanked: 496 times
- Been thanked: 1106 times
Re: Updates on the way.
by lujo » 04 Jan 2016, 20:47
There are so many excellent nuts and bolts in that batch alone I wouldn't know where to begin praising it. No false praise or anything, there's a lot of concrete boring but practical cards (not to mention strong cards) that I've been whishing I had at my disposal for deckbuilding all the time. Deep greatful bow from me, for what it's worth.
One small detail - I've seen you add Wild Colos to the new manalink batch, I hope he makes it into the next shandlar update too. A potentially smooth and non-owerwhelming goblin-beast deck I've been struggling to build would benefit hugely from being able to play it into Skirk Outrider.
Otherwise - a lot of stuff you've added so far will very likely really kick in with the next update. Thank you very, very much.
One small detail - I've seen you add Wild Colos to the new manalink batch, I hope he makes it into the next shandlar update too. A potentially smooth and non-owerwhelming goblin-beast deck I've been struggling to build would benefit hugely from being able to play it into Skirk Outrider.
Otherwise - a lot of stuff you've added so far will very likely really kick in with the next update. Thank you very, very much.
---
My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
Re: Updates on the way.
by lujo » 05 Jan 2016, 11:30
Apologies for that, I got distracted by all the nice stuff that I somehow didn't even notice 
So many niches covered here: small blue +1/+1 buff auras, for example, that bounce themselves or the creatures they're on, small dwarves without mountainwalk (did I miss Dwarven Soldier somehow or is it impossible to get it in?), fish and pirates for "island" decks, lots of cantrips so that at least a bunch are bound to work, spirits that can work with other spirits witout .csv fiddling (and also happen to fill p/t and cc niches), banneretts... Prophecy avatars! (Err, probably overkill but I'll be damned if I don't give them a whilr XD) I had too many decks springing up and rearranging themselves in my head by the time I got to the Wild Colos, I'm sorry.
If waiting for the gatherer stuff to update means we get to see another list like this, I'm pretty sure noone'd mind
So many niches covered here: small blue +1/+1 buff auras, for example, that bounce themselves or the creatures they're on, small dwarves without mountainwalk (did I miss Dwarven Soldier somehow or is it impossible to get it in?), fish and pirates for "island" decks, lots of cantrips so that at least a bunch are bound to work, spirits that can work with other spirits witout .csv fiddling (and also happen to fill p/t and cc niches), banneretts... Prophecy avatars! (Err, probably overkill but I'll be damned if I don't give them a whilr XD) I had too many decks springing up and rearranging themselves in my head by the time I got to the Wild Colos, I'm sorry.
If waiting for the gatherer stuff to update means we get to see another list like this, I'm pretty sure noone'd mind
---
My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
Re: Updates on the way.
by Korath » 05 Jan 2016, 12:10
Dwarven Soldier can't be done properly yet, basically for the reasons stated in the second paragraph here (and see e.g. here for the kind of problem that shows up over and over when it's worked around instead of done properly). But since it's the only 2-power Dwarf for 2, its ability is generally irrelevant, and I have a special place in my heart for Fallen Empires, I'll put in the approximation Manalink uses for it for the time being.
I'm definitely not going to go through and do other cards with blocking triggers in general, though.
I'm definitely not going to go through and do other cards with blocking triggers in general, though.
-
Korath - DEVELOPER
- Posts: 3707
- Joined: 02 Jun 2013, 05:57
- Has thanked: 496 times
- Been thanked: 1106 times
Re: Updates on the way.
by lujo » 05 Jan 2016, 13:57
Thanks for the answer, and thanks for the temporary implementation when you get around to it. I was annoyed that that damned card is so pivotal for making dwarves tick. The ability comes up surprisingly often in Fallen Empires draft (which I'm a huge fan of btw, it's a much better set than folks generally think), but can easily never be relevant in a constructed format.
Wanted to say thank you for the affinity stuff, too, and the fact that you've moved into the cost reduction / alt cost territory, it's bound to make stuff possible. Anywho, great work!
Wanted to say thank you for the affinity stuff, too, and the fact that you've moved into the cost reduction / alt cost territory, it's bound to make stuff possible. Anywho, great work!
---
My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests