It is currently 21 Nov 2019, 05:33
   
Text Size

3 things for Korath to consider when he feels like it

MicroProse's Shandalar Campaign Game, now with new cards & a new look!

Moderators: BAgate, drool66, stassy, Aswan jaguar, gmzombie, CCGHQ Admins

3 things for Korath to consider when he feels like it

Postby lujo » 15 Sep 2016, 13:14

I'm not actually back yet, and I've been following the development and admiring the progress and feeling bad for the nasty setback.

I've read you made some sort of deckbuilder rewrite you're not too happy with for Manalink. I'm not sure there's a good way to filter out colorless cards properly, like the eldrazi stuff or to separate the filters between properly colorless artifact creatures and colored ones. Maybe there is but I can't find it.

Assuming there isn't, you might want to do something about it. It makes the deckbuilder very unwieldly. I use Forge for deckbuilding anyway, and this other fellow seems to be using something else, so if it looks like someone's doing something and things are OK it's not really like that - the deckbuilder is quite unusable in practice (maybe?). You got your hands full and all, just though I'd mention.

--

Another thing is that the whole "manalink decks use one format - shandalar decks use another format - shandalar decks have code for names - you gotta make decks in an external program anyway" is quite a hassle. If there's a deckbuilder rewrite in the cards, or partial rewrite, or calling up an external deckbuilder clone with more sensible options or really, whatever, can something finally be done about this?

An semi-ideal thing wold be if the person making the deck in the shandalar-specific deckbuilder could have an option while saving it to save it as one of the decks in the "decks" folder. A simple drop down menu, which doesn't list the numbers but translates them into names, you pick the name, and the program saves the deck in the correct format and as the correct deck.

No idea how difficult this would be, I'm sure you got other stuff on your mind (as in all I have to do is check the development thread), but this would be huge.

--

And I'd personally love a simple which turns a Forge decklist into a decklist. Although I should probably be asking the Forge guys for that, an option to export forge decklists as shandalar ones. So this doesn't have anything to do with Korath :lol:
---

My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
User avatar
lujo
 
Posts: 557
Joined: 20 Nov 2013, 13:17
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: 3 things for Korath to consider when he feels like it

Postby Korath » 15 Sep 2016, 20:03

That's actually four things.

A filter for colorless is already on my list. (See here for some other stuff.)

Part of the point of working on Shandalar, and most of the point of working on Manalink, is to keep the look and feel of the original MicroProse game. A completely different deckbuilder defeats the purpose. It's also not trivial, since the interface to the current deckbuilder is poor - while the code is neatly segregated into a separate library, when it's called from the main Shandalar game, it horrifically inspects and alters the main process's global data directly instead of explicitly communicating it back and forth. It's enough to make a grown programmer cry.

Manalink and Shandalar decks use the same format. Not sure what you're on about. They do have different lists of cards that are valid, which I can't do anything about. I can certainly enable direct loading from and saving to the numbered enemy decks the decks/ directory instead of just the named ones in playdecks/.

If the Forge decklist format is reasonably sensible - that is, it has the card name as plain text, and not solely some internal code - I can probably read it. It's not reasonable to ask them to add an option to export in Manalink/Shandalar native format, since it's not sensible (the "comments" at the start of the file are required; and it goes by some internal code, and though it does have the card names as plain text, it ignores those). It'll save me a couple minutes if you post an attachment with a couple samples for me, including at least one with cards including various accents in the names (say, Æther Adept and Juzám Djinn).

If you post these as (separate) formal feature requests, I won't forget about them, and it'll again save me a couple minutes.
User avatar
Korath
DEVELOPER
 
Posts: 3412
Joined: 02 Jun 2013, 05:57
Has thanked: 482 times
Been thanked: 950 times

Re: 3 things for Korath to consider when he feels like it

Postby lujo » 15 Sep 2016, 23:14

Korath wrote:That's actually four things.

A filter for colorless is already on my list. (See here for some other stuff.)
That's good to hear, gonna check that thread out, thank you. Been keeping up on the git logs to the best of my ability, too.

Korath wrote:Part of the point of working on Shandalar, and most of the point of working on Manalink, is to keep the look and feel of the original MicroProse game. A completely different deckbuilder defeats the purpose.
Yep. It's a bit subjecitve, mind you, but I do get where you're coming from.

Korath wrote: It's also not trivial, since the interface to the current deckbuilder is poor - while the code is neatly segregated into a separate library, when it's called from the main Shandalar game, it horrifically inspects and alters the main process's global data directly instead of explicitly communicating it back and forth. It's enough to make a grown programmer cry.
And I get you there, too, ofc.

I thought the combination of the original limitations, the messyness of what you describe, and the sheer impracticality of trying to use the damned thing for much other than just manually creating a .dck file after putting the deck together in something else might one day lead you to work it over thoroughly.

Just saying. You got a whole thread of what's wrong with it, I haven't even had a chance to read it all so I don't even know the half of it.

Korath wrote:Manalink and Shandalar decks use the same format. Not sure what you're on about.
Whoa, wait, wait, wait:

the decks used in-shandalar, the ones with numbers instead of names look like this:

Code: Select all

Lord of Fate (Bl/Wh, Type 1)

(cardlist)

with lines for sideboard and such below hereabouts
and the ones in the decbuilder look like this:

Code: Select all
;1st - Alexander Blumke
;Blue/Black/White
;PlayDeck Analyser v0.4b
;PlayDeckAnalyser@slightlymagic.net
;January 19, 2013
;1
;4th Edition
;This PlayDeck was imported from MagicWorkStation by PlayDeck Analyser v0.4b

(cardlist)

Korath wrote:I can certainly enable direct loading from and saving to the numbered enemy decks the decks/ directory instead of just the named ones in playdecks/.
Could you? Are you sure it wouldn't mess up the uncommented first line all the numbered decks seem to have? Or add the commented lines which might confuse Shandalar?

I mean, I'd love to test it till it works, being able to pick what you're editing from the deck folder (the numbered ones), save directly from deckbuilder into that, and possibly see the name of what I'm editing instead of having to look up codes would be AMAZING.

How would that even work?

Korath wrote:If the Forge decklist format is reasonably sensible - that is, it has the card name as plain text, and not solely some internal code - I can probably read it.
For the purposes of creating one huge Shandalar set like I did, it's perfectly reasonable. It's all in .txt files pretty much anyway. To get what I got, which is a bit dodgy all one has to do is:

Make a Shandalar.txt in the res\editions folder

Start it off with:

Code: Select all
[metadata]
Code=SHA
Date=1980-10-02
Name=Shandalar
Code2=SHA
Type=Expansion
BoosterCovers=5
Booster=10 Common

[cards]
C Air Elemental
C Ancestral Recall
C Animate Artifact
C Animate Dead
...

The C is the rarity, and I made everything common because it was the only time-efficient way to convert the cardlist.txt into this thing, but I suppose an option that wrote that beginning text and then listed out cards with their rarity instead of their Shandalar number would be much better.

Since the cards are allready present in Forge - MOSTLY - they use the pictures you can automatically download with Forge anyway. There are a bunch of cards that are present in Shandalar but NOT in Forge (or rather they have no code so they're not turned on), so I added those to Forge manually AND I also added the Astral stuff too (except directly to Shandalar).

I could probably round up the stuff, by comparing the lists and fishing for extra dummy files I made for the missing cards (they include text and other data relevant for filtering and searching, although not necessarily pictures for astral cards as Forge has a problematic policy about using scans rather then the much better and more satisfying Shandalar arrangement, and Astral cards don't have either gatherer pics to lift or scans.)

Korath wrote:It's not reasonable to ask them to add an option to export in Manalink/Shandalar native format, since it's not sensible (the "comments" at the start of the file are required; and it goes by some internal code, and though it does have the card names as plain text, it ignores those).
Ok.

Korath wrote:It'll save me a couple minutes if you post an attachment with a couple samples for me, including at least one with cards including various accents in the names (say, Æther Adept and Juzám Djinn).
Sure, what do you mean exactly? Samples of deck files from forge? Something else?

And yeah, that's the other snag, all the AE and accented letters are plain letters in Forge, I had to go through the entire list initially to check for inconsistencies in that department.

Korath wrote:If you post these as (separate) formal feature requests, I won't forget about them, and it'll again save me a couple minutes.
Not a problem, I'll make brief formal feature requests for this stuff tomorrow. I've attached a big batch of my decklists in forge format in the zip file, and the shandalar "expansion" file, too.

Oh, and thanks a lot for that Agent of Shauku , gonna have some fun with mercenaries next time I run around Shandalar.
Attachments
Forge Lists.rar
Aga Galneer has Juzam Djinn , dunno if anyone has any Aether
(53.03 KiB) Downloaded 75 times
Shandalar.txt
You can see how anything tricky is spelled here
(159.88 KiB) Downloaded 237 times
---

My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
User avatar
lujo
 
Posts: 557
Joined: 20 Nov 2013, 13:17
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Re: 3 things for Korath to consider when he feels like it

Postby Korath » 16 Sep 2016, 00:04

I'll be able to reproduce Shandalar.txt easily, and read the Forge decklists with only a little effort.

Writing them out might be a bit harder, depending on how strict it is about reading them. I don't suppose it could handle something like
Code: Select all
[metadata]
Name=Aga Galneer - 0434
[Main]
3 Abzan Falconer
2 Ashes to Ashes
3 Ashnod's Transmogrant
4 Bayou
4 Erg Raiders
3 Fledgling Djinn
2 Forest
4 Honor's Reward
2 Hurricane
2 Juzam Djinn
3 Map the Wastes
2 Night's Whisper
3 Personal Sanctuary
3 Plains
2 Return to the Earth
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Savannah
4 Scrubland
3 Siege Rhino
3 Swamp
- that is, with the set and especially the card variant tags removed?

Failing that, would it be able to handle a line like
3 Siege Rhino|KTK|1
so that I only have to worry about finding a set that the card was released in, and not worry about whether it has multiple versions or not?
User avatar
Korath
DEVELOPER
 
Posts: 3412
Joined: 02 Jun 2013, 05:57
Has thanked: 482 times
Been thanked: 950 times

Re: 3 things for Korath to consider when he feels like it

Postby lujo » 16 Sep 2016, 01:48

I think what I'm actually asking is converting a forge deck into the shandalar format rather than the other way around. So pretty much just being able to read the names of the cards and the number of copies and sticking the correct shandalar number tag and ordering it correctly.

Which is to say, I don't understand the question. That IS how a forge decklist looks like with the set tags (and the rest of the specific array bits I suppose) taken off. Any way to easily turn that into a shandalar decklist without having to manually fiddle with the deckbuilder?
---

My Shandalar deck pack folder is avaliable here:Dropbox
Leave feedback on particular decks here: Google doc
Ask for instructions, give feedback and complaints here: Thread
User avatar
lujo
 
Posts: 557
Joined: 20 Nov 2013, 13:17
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 70 times


Return to Shandalar

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 10 minutes)
Most users ever online was 553 on 18 Nov 2019, 23:05

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login Form