Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
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Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by quatrocentos-e-vinte » 11 May 2015, 22:58
Good stuff, stassy. I also made a few decks, just for fun. In fact, it's not easy to simultaneously keep the original themes of the decks and make their power balance right. I tried to make decks tribal, whenever possible, since I like that.
Anyway, if you're the type of crazy person that thinks Shandalar is "too easy", maybe you'll enjoy some of the decks?
Elementalist: Elemental Tribal deck
Difficulty level: Easy (I guess)
Forest Dragon: Snake Tribal deck
Difficulty level: Easy/Medium
Mind Stealer: Stealing and discard deck
Difficulty level: Easy/Medium
Merfolk Shaman: Merfolk Tribal deck
Difficulty level: Difficult
Elvish Magi: Elf Tribal deck
Difficulty level: Difficult
Crusader: Knight Tribal deck
Difficulty level: Difficult
Goblin Warlord: Goblin Tribal deck
Difficulty level: Difficult
(as always, backup your stuff and so on...)
Anyway, if you're the type of crazy person that thinks Shandalar is "too easy", maybe you'll enjoy some of the decks?
Elementalist: Elemental Tribal deck
Difficulty level: Easy (I guess)
- | Open
Forest Dragon: Snake Tribal deck
Difficulty level: Easy/Medium
- | Open
Mind Stealer: Stealing and discard deck
Difficulty level: Easy/Medium
- | Open
Merfolk Shaman: Merfolk Tribal deck
Difficulty level: Difficult
- | Open
Elvish Magi: Elf Tribal deck
Difficulty level: Difficult
- | Open
Crusader: Knight Tribal deck
Difficulty level: Difficult
- | Open
Goblin Warlord: Goblin Tribal deck
Difficulty level: Difficult
- | Open
(as always, backup your stuff and so on...)
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Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by Aswan jaguar » 12 May 2015, 04:17
Thanks for the decks quatrocentos-e-vinte,you may want to consider putting Master of the Waves in the elementalist deck it will certainly be a nice addition to have a lord type boost those elemental,probably not so easy deck to win with 4 of them on the deck.
I wouldn't leave anything out though,I would just make the deck a little bigger but that's just me.
I wouldn't leave anything out though,I would just make the deck a little bigger but that's just me.
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Trying to squash some bugs and playtesting.
Trying to squash some bugs and playtesting.
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Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by quatrocentos-e-vinte » 12 May 2015, 09:06
You're totally right, Aswan jaguar. I'm including here a fixed version of the deck (to make it more challenging), along with a few more decks I made in the meantime.
Elementalist (v2): Elemental Tribal deck
Difficulty: Medium/Hard
Cleric (could just as well be High Priest): Horribly annoying life-gain/Cleric Tribal deck
Difficulty: Annoying
Conjurer: Bouncy-bouncy Tempo-based Weenie deck
Difficulty: Annoying
Winged Stallion: Magical Hack 'ing deck
Difficulty: Easy/Medium(?)
Guardian of the Tusk: Elephant Tribal deck
Difficulty: Medium
Queltosh: Tempo-based Aggro
Difficulty: Hard
(A|U)rzakon: Urzatron/Milling deck
Difficulty: ???
This last one was done as a joke (since it easily dies to a playset of Energy Flux and, well... I'm really not sure how well the AI can play as Urzakon) but, if the "deck rotation" thing ever gets implemented, it could be fun to include 
Also, the deck I previously posted for the Crusader (Knights Tribal deck, 0283.dck), should really be for the Paladin (0175.dck). I apologize for the mistake.
Elementalist (v2): Elemental Tribal deck
Difficulty: Medium/Hard
- | Open
Cleric (could just as well be High Priest): Horribly annoying life-gain/Cleric Tribal deck
Difficulty: Annoying
- | Open
Conjurer: Bouncy-bouncy Tempo-based Weenie deck
Difficulty: Annoying
- | Open
Winged Stallion: Magical Hack 'ing deck
Difficulty: Easy/Medium(?)
- | Open
Guardian of the Tusk: Elephant Tribal deck
Difficulty: Medium
- | Open
Queltosh: Tempo-based Aggro
Difficulty: Hard
- | Open
(A|U)rzakon: Urzatron/Milling deck
Difficulty: ???
- | Open
This last one was done as a joke
(since it easily dies to a playset of Energy Flux and, well... I'm really not sure how well the AI can play as Urzakon) but, if the "deck rotation" thing ever gets implemented, it could be fun to include Also, the deck I previously posted for the Crusader (Knights Tribal deck, 0283.dck), should really be for the Paladin (0175.dck). I apologize for the mistake.
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Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by stassy » 12 May 2015, 11:04
Not sure as well, from the original deck it seems just a pile of all rare and randomly do things until player die since it has thousand HPs...maybe an EDH five colors based deck with lot of goldies, but that doesn't make it a big menacing boss
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Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by stassy » 13 May 2015, 17:42
It's quite hard to design deck with new cards on low life enemy, they need to do something before they die at turn 3 (against a burn deck)
Druid : Bear tribal deck
Druid : Bear tribal deck
- | Open
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Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by Korath » 14 May 2015, 01:16
I do mean to increase the AI starting life, most likely by changing the starting life at Apprentice difficulty to what it currently is at Wizard (the low-end enemies at apprentice difficulty currently only have 4 life!) and scaling up to a flat 20 at Wizard difficulty.
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Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by jiansonz » 15 May 2015, 00:10
Love what you people are doing, keep it up!
Some of those decks look really interesting, and I get all excited thinking about the time when we first have a complete 55 decks overhaul.
Since it's so easy to switch between deck packs, we could have several different at the ready. (I have that myself in old Shandalar: my overhaul, podbleski's, Hadsingrinsen's)
For example, we could have one that closely follows the original themes of the enemies, one really hard setup, one totally wacky, etc. It's a cliche to say that the possibilities are endless, but they really are this time.
I'm afraid I won't be able to help much with the deck building for quite a while. I am only familiar with a couple of dozen of the 'post classic Shandalar' cards (been playing some challenges in Manalink) so I really don't know "what's there", so to speak. Most of the keywords are also new to me (but it's nice that they are usually explained in the card texts)
I'm currently playing a blue/white creature deck at Sorcerer level, mostly just to learn about the cards available. I seem to lose more than usual, overall record is now 15-9. Only one of those losses is to the new Merfolk Shaman deck. My overhaul seems to hold up pretty well, especially Undead Knight and Sorcerer are a bit scary when your starting life is low.
Some of those decks look really interesting, and I get all excited thinking about the time when we first have a complete 55 decks overhaul.
Since it's so easy to switch between deck packs, we could have several different at the ready. (I have that myself in old Shandalar: my overhaul, podbleski's, Hadsingrinsen's)
For example, we could have one that closely follows the original themes of the enemies, one really hard setup, one totally wacky, etc. It's a cliche to say that the possibilities are endless, but they really are this time.
I'm afraid I won't be able to help much with the deck building for quite a while. I am only familiar with a couple of dozen of the 'post classic Shandalar' cards (been playing some challenges in Manalink) so I really don't know "what's there", so to speak. Most of the keywords are also new to me (but it's nice that they are usually explained in the card texts)
I'm currently playing a blue/white creature deck at Sorcerer level, mostly just to learn about the cards available. I seem to lose more than usual, overall record is now 15-9. Only one of those losses is to the new Merfolk Shaman deck. My overhaul seems to hold up pretty well, especially Undead Knight and Sorcerer are a bit scary when your starting life is low.
Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by jiansonz » 16 May 2015, 07:21
Done!jiansonz wrote:If the issue with new cards in Shandalar ever gets solved, the first thing I am going to do is replace the two Craw Wurm cards with Ancient Silverback. The deck just screams for them!
0437.dck
- | Open
Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by quatrocentos-e-vinte » 20 May 2015, 10:13
I agreejiansonz wrote:Since it's so easy to switch between deck packs, we could have several different at the ready. (I have that myself in old Shandalar: my overhaul, podbleski's, Hadsingrinsen's)
For example, we could have one that closely follows the original themes of the enemies, one really hard setup, one totally wacky, etc. It's a cliche to say that the possibilities are endless, but they really are this time.
the possibilities do seem endless now...After playing against some of the new decks, it does seem much more challenging (sometimes a bit too much
), so it might make sense to have both easier theme-oriented deckpacks and harder spike-oriented deckpacks.By the way... would it be possible for you to post here all the "old school" Shandalar deckpacks? I'm trying to gather all there is out there
To be honest, I would suggest changing the scaling factor, rather than the Apprentice-level baseline, and possibly truncating at 25 or 30 life (rather than 20). The underlying reason is to maximize the usefulness of having "Difficulty levels": I think the easy level should be kept easy (or even made easier), the hard level should be made much harder than it is, and the intermediate levels should interpolate in-between.Korath wrote:I do mean to increase the AI starting life, most likely by changing the starting life at Apprentice difficulty to what it currently is at Wizard (the low-end enemies at apprentice difficulty currently only have 4 life!) and scaling up to a flat 20 at Wizard difficulty.
It's just that, otherwise, it seems that there is no reason to play at any other level other than Apprentice (if you are lame like me and think that Shandalar is already hard as it is
) or Wizard (if you are a hardcore player).Either way, I think the difficulty level is much more tied to the character's decks than to their starting life value
even a 4 life character can be nasty, if you give it a vise+burn deck, after all...- quatrocentos-e-vinte
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Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by stassy » 20 May 2015, 10:41
The issue is for low level enemy, they should stay "low level" enemy aka they can't use uber combo or 1 turn kill deck because it would require to put treasure-like cards in their deck, which is not the point (a low level enemy should play common/uncommon cards), because it would be too easy to abuse the system (beat them so you can steal/copy/ante treasure card).quatrocentos-e-vinte wrote:
Either way, I think the difficulty level is much more tied to the character's decks than to their starting life value
So that is why it's hard to create decks for them! I was trying to make an hexproof/shroud/unblockable type deck but those kind of creatures are too slow, by T3/T4 the player usually already have setup his game and it's hard for the AI to counter him, especially when many cards combo are not played well.
Seer : placeholder deck for Counterspell/unblockable
- | Open
Sea Drake : placeholder Illusion deck
- | Open
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Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by jiansonz » 20 May 2015, 15:50
Sure.quatrocentos-e-vinte wrote:By the way... would it be possible for you to post here all the "old school" Shandalar deckpacks? I'm trying to gather all there is out there
I no longer have (I think) the basic deckpack in a folder, but all the decks are listed in this thread.
Here is the original Spells of the Ancients deckpack:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/2sevlwvya80scym/SotA+Decks.ZIP
There were fewer cards in the pool compared to the second expansion (Duels of the Planeswalkers) but they had at least made an effort to update the first deckpack.
Some weird stuff going on here, and no sideboards. Some examples:
* Paladin has no landwalking aspect, Karma or Angry Mob, instead relies on the typical 'Sleight Knight' deck, with some added strength from StP and Juggernauts.
* Arch-Angel has no Serra Angel, and it's much less fearsome than in pretty much all the other deckpacks.
* Greater Lich is a heavy land destructor, has a little cheese in the form of 4x Contract from Below, but he gets bonus points for actually having Lich in the deck...
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Here is a slightly updated version of my overhaul:
(credit also needs to go to Abe Sargent who did most of the work for many decks)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/1z252859epg4516/jiansonz+overhaul.ZIP
The differences between this and the one you get from the Shandalar 2015 download are:
* Merfolk Shaman deck is what I have shown in this thread (not with any Korath-added cards).
* Shapeshifter and Conjurer have Reconstruction instead of Drafna's Restoration. I think Reconstruction is better because 1. I think the AI handles it better, 2. I think it's less likely to cause crashes and 3. if the AI has enough mana, it can cast the artifact the same turn. Compared to Drafna's, it's only one artifact but usually there is one particular artifact you really want to use again.
* Vampire Lord now has a couple of Nettling Imp cards.
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Thread about podbelski's deckpack
These decks are overall the most competitive of the packs, as many of them have only 40 cards. I think the Saltrem Tor deck is especially cool, with seven (!) different djinns/efreets (plus Bottle of Suleiman).
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Thread about Hadsingrinsen's deckpack
The aim here was to use many of the previously unused cards in AI decks. It is not as loyal to the original colors of the decks as my pack is. Beast Master splashes white, for example.
It feels slightly less competitive overall than my overhaul (and Hadsingrinsen does encourage players to restrict dual lands in their decks) but it's a nice change of pace. The strongest decks are IMO those for the bigger white creatures. The White castle withstood several attempts when I tried to conquer it on my first campaign.
The description for the Sedge Beast is funny - it's a "freak of nature", and the deck reflects this (Abomination, Living Wall, Cosmic Horror, Two-Headed Giant of Foriys, etc).
Last edited by jiansonz on 20 May 2015, 17:53, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by quatrocentos-e-vinte » 20 May 2015, 17:43
Thanks jiansonz that's very helpful.
In case anyone is interested, here is an updated (but still incomplete) version of my deckpack. There are also some alternate decks for "Ape Lord" (Eldrazi tribal) and "Arzakon" (Urzatron/Milling).
List of decks included:
List of deck alternatives:
I apologize for the general unbalancedness of the decks. Once I have at least one deck for each character, I'll try to make the power levels of the decks match better
that's very helpful.In case anyone is interested, here is an updated (but still incomplete) version of my deckpack. There are also some alternate decks for "Ape Lord" (Eldrazi tribal) and "Arzakon" (Urzatron/Milling).
List of decks included:
- | Open
List of deck alternatives:
- | Open
I apologize for the general unbalancedness of the decks. Once I have at least one deck for each character, I'll try to make the power levels of the decks match better
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Re: Shandalar enemy decks overhaul
by Elemental » 21 May 2015, 16:33
Ok, I've also tried to change two decks (I am new to this).
My problem now, the game crashed with some cards I put in.
I tried to find out why. Started debug mode and tried to place specific cards ingame : e.g. i could not find Thrull Retainer and Fallowsage in the list to place in game.
The magic deck editor shows them to me.
Maybe I have installed something wrong, or they are not implemented in Shandalar.
I installed like Bog Wraith posted.
So, how can I find out which card I can add to a deck?
My problem now, the game crashed with some cards I put in.
I tried to find out why. Started debug mode and tried to place specific cards ingame : e.g. i could not find Thrull Retainer and Fallowsage in the list to place in game.
The magic deck editor shows them to me.
Maybe I have installed something wrong, or they are not implemented in Shandalar.
I installed like Bog Wraith posted.
So, how can I find out which card I can add to a deck?
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