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The raw data, which'll probably be of some interest here. unk_d4, for example, seems to control the extra powers enemies can get at the start of a duel: having 2 set allows the enemy to copy the player's library a la Mind Stealer; having 4 set allows the "Why don't you try this deck?"; etc.

jiansonz wrote:I associate Beast Master mostly with wolves. OK, green animals as a whole but mostly wolves. Timber Wolves in the original, both in the deck and as starting advantage and potential reward in the next duel, and Wyluli Wolf was added in the overhaul. Also, look at his animated avatar in-game.
Master of the Hunt and Master of the Wild Hunt would fit, but they aren't in the game this far.
Another idea is to splash a little white for Tundra Wolves, Isamaru, Watchwolf and Tolsimir Wolfblood.
I am fine with beasts as well - there weren't many (any?) green ones in the original game.

You're right I don't know what I was thinking...

Thanks for your suggestions, jiansonz... very useful. I will update the file accordingly.

Korath wrote:The raw data, which'll probably be of some interest here. unk_d4, for example, seems to control the extra powers enemies can get at the start of a duel: having 2 set allows the enemy to copy the player's library a la Mind Stealer; having 4 set allows the "Why don't you try this deck?"; etc.

It is of interest, yes thank you

Any idea what some of the other non-annotated flags mean? (unk_c1, c2, c3, c4, c6, d2, d5, d6)

I'm super-curious about what the "signature card" means lol... That was actually one of the things I wanted to add (since it's obvious that e.g. Ape Lord <-> Kird Ape, Arch Angel <-> Serra Angel), but I really couldn't figure out what the "signature card" would be for most of the characters, so I had given up on that.

I will definitely add that information to the table, but... does it even affect gameplay?

Ok. Here's a new version: just introduced jiansonz's fixes and added a "signature card" column, taken from 'enemies.data'.

It's interesting that the "signature card" information seems corrupted for the Dragons and Arzakon (I assume they were originally referencing Astral Set cards). I tried to guess the correct signature card for each Dragon but, for Arzakon, I have no idea what it could be... maybe some of the Shandalar pros can help me here

I have to extract the rest of the data, at some point, to try to understand it...

Signature card determines the deck filename, and prevents the named card from being offered as ante. (If it's even in that enemy's deck anymore, which it mostly isn't.) I think that's it.

I haven't yet put any effort into the other fields, no, or else I'd have named them too. Their uses are easy to find in src/exe_shandalar.c - just search for "shandalar_enemies" - but what they're actually used for is another matter entirely.

There weren't any cards in the 990-999 range in original Shandalar (for the dragons and Arzakon); the highest assigned was 952, for Rubinia Soulsinger.

After analysing the original Shandalar decks, it became clear that the proposed deck guidelines were way too restrictive. This updated version should be much better. Comments are welcome.

Another special ability I noticed today: Sorceress can summon a Goblin Lord.

Just a reminder that Abe Sargent has built 'updated' decks for 40 of the 55 creatures in Shandalar, not just remakes of them from Shandalar cards available at the time. The updated decks are how he wanted to do them if all cards were available. The articles are linked to in the first post of this thread. Not all of those cards are in the game (as of yet), but many of them are. Lots of good ideas there.

Okay, by my count we now have new suggestions for 35 of the 55 decks. That number includes some low-key remakes I've made (mostly from Abe Sargent's suggestions) for Astral Visionary and Shapeshifter.

Astral Visionary (0245.dck)
(Basically just replaced Power Leak and Mana Short with Frozen Æther and an extra Boomerang)

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Astral Visionary (Ub)

.126 24 Island
.48 4 Counterspell
.1 1 Ancestral Recall
.249 1 Time Walk
.47 1 Copy Artifact
.340 4 Leviathan
.233 4 Stasis
.169 1 Mox Sapphire
.17 1 Black Lotus
.256 2 Twiddle
.550 4 Yotian Soldier
.114 4 Howling Mine
.585 3 Boomerang
.495 1 Feldon's Cane
.503 1 Ivory Tower
.18 4 Black Vise
.1740 2 Frozen Æther

Shapeshifter (0263.dck)
Less tricks, more offensive creatures and more power cards:

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.126 20 Island
.508 4 Mishra's Factory
.502 2 Hurkyl's Recall
.525 2 Shapeshifter
.519 2 Primal Clay
.157 2 Mana Vault
.510 1 Mishra's Workshop
.263 4 Vesuvan Doppelganger
.47 1 Copy Artifact
.11 2 Basalt Monolith
.538 1 Triskelion
.537 1 Transmute Artifact
.484 1 Clockwork Avian
.38 1 Clockwork Beast
.534 1 Tetravus
.521 1 Reconstruction
.230 1 Sol Ring
.249 1 Time Walk
.250 1 Timetwister
.1 1 Ancestral Recall
.529 4 Su-Chi
.132 4 Juggernaut
.17 1 Black Lotus
.169 1 Mox Sapphire

Would probably be more fun with decks with more 'new' cards for those two as well (although I am reasonably pleased with the blue wizardess one). Other that that, we definitely need new decks for

Cleric (I use quatrocentos-e-vinte's deck as High Priest because it seems to be so annoying )
Priestess
Troll Shaman
Sedge Beast
Alt-A-Kesh
Saltrem Tor
Nether Fiend
Beast Master
Hydra
Arch Angel
Mandurang
Dracur
Kiska-Ra
Necromancer
Thought Invoker
War Mage
Greater Lich
Great Druid
Dragon Lord
Sainted One

I started again some decks with Abe guideline, beginning with green Druid, it's still a challenge to replace non coded cards with current functional ones...I wonder if he took into account the starting life of the creatures because the decks are way too slow, even in wizard difficulty, unless they face a player with his starting deck.

jiansonz wrote:Cleric (I use quatrocentos-e-vinte's deck as High Priest because it seems to be so annoying )

Yeah, and Korath just implemented Soul Warden, Soul's Attendant and other horrible lifegain-related cards

I have a few more decks made in the meantime, but I want to finish figuring out a way of automatically (gu)e(s)stimating a deck's "power level" before continuing to make more. But... yeah... the more, the merrier we just need to start compiling the decks we have, and then adjust them accordingly, as needed.

It's good to have a list of which characters are less represented, though now we just need to start cranking decks

My attempt at an Arch Angel deck.

(no attachment posted until I've made a few more decks. If you want to try it out, copy/paste to the Arch Angel deck file in the PlayDeck folder (for duelling in Manalink) or in 0221.dck in the Decks folder (for Shandalar))

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.188 18 Plains
.10576 4 Kabira Crossroads
.157 2 Mana Vault
.290 2 Wrath of God
.221 4 Serra Angel
.240 3 Swords to Plowshares
.954 2 Angelic Page
.4045 1 Radiant, Archangel
.13258 4 Archangel of Thune
.13257 1 Angelic Accord
.230 1 Sol Ring
.167 1 Mox Pearl
.17 1 Black Lotus
.12310 1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
.1198 1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
.1655 2 Angelic Curator
.10430 4 Honor of the Pure
.12881 2 Angelic Edict
.14188 2 Sungrace Pegasus
.12462 2 Seraph of Dawn
.12384 1 Goldnight Redeemer
.794 1 Spirit Link

Comment: I decided to remove the whole artifact creatures side theme. I wasn't too happy about removing the very much in-flavor Angelic Voices, but Honor of the Pure is clearly better in this case. The deck may start out a little slow but I've tried to include a good amount of mana acceleration, and there are still six creatures with mana cost 2 and a few with mana cost 4.

I have played some Gauntlets in Manalink with this deck (my PlayDeck folder now only holds the 55 Shandalar decks as they look in our overhaul now - i.e. 36 more or less remade and 19 standard). This deck kicks major butt quite often but can run into problems against heavy creature removal/bouncing and against land destruction.


(EDIT: replaced Archangel with Radiant, Archangel.)

Good stuff I'm pretty sure your Arch Angel would beat my current one They're quite similar in style though (I just used some token generation as a "speed bump" for the opponent, before the wraths and angels)...

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.1655 1 Angelic Curator
.12361 1 Emancipation Angel
.11283 1 Indomitable Archangel
.12462 1 Seraph of Dawn
.11874 1 Angelic Overseer
.13258 1 Archangel of Thune
.4045 1 Radiant, Archangel
.221 1 Serra Angel
.12310 1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
.1198 1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
.230 1 Sol Ring
.3962 1 Worn Powerstone
.8349 1 Coldsteel Heart
.1213 1 Gold Myr
.11858 1 Timely Reinforcements
.10 1 Balance
.290 4 Wrath of God
.1467 1 Wayfarer's Bauble
.6316 3 Weathered Wayfarer
.11 1 Basalt Monolith
.11190 1 War Priest of Thune
.240 1 Swords to Plowshares
.968 1 Pacifism
.1450 2 Raise the Alarm
.12185 1 Gather the Townsfolk
.12021 1 Midnight Haunting
.12818 1 Seller of Songbirds
.11567 1 Blade Splicer
.10527 1 Day of Judgment
.167 1 Mox Pearl
.11311 1 Mox Opal
.1219 4 Ancient Den
.8982 1 New Benalia
.188 12 Plains
.1468 3 Terramorphic Expanse
.10925 3 Evolving Wilds

quatrocentos-e-vinte wrote:I'm pretty sure your Arch Angel would beat my current one

I don't think so, or rather, it would depend a lot on the draw. Yours is better at finding lands and getting the defense up.

But I totally missed Radiant, she's amazing! Gets boosted by enemy flyers as well. She has now replaced the regular Archangel...

I've been playing Shandalar for a long time, and was excited to see all the new cards in this latest version. Here's an attempt at a weak Cleric deck, with approximately an even split between Clerics and Soldiers (to fit with the Benalish Hero theme), that fits within the suggested restriction of 8 uncommons + 1 rare. I've tried to keep the power level down by only including 2x for the uncommons, as well as using some of the weaker but thematically appropriate commons.

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.188 23 Plains
.13 4 Benalish Hero
.2940 4 Benalish Infantry
.11782 4 Benalish Veteran
.5489 2 Beloved Chaplain
.8500 4 Children of Korlis
.5533 4 Dedicated Martyr
.6123 2 Doubtless One
.13434 2 Evangel of Heliod
.696 4 Keepers of the Faith
.14150 2 Paragon of New Dawns
.12277 1 Thraben Doomsayer
.11889 4 Bonds of Faith

Fourth Inversion wrote:I've been playing Shandalar for a long time, and was excited to see all the new cards in this latest version. Here's an attempt at a weak Cleric deck, with approximately an even split between Clerics and Soldiers (to fit with the Benalish Hero theme), that fits within the suggested restriction of 8 uncommons + 1 rare. I've tried to keep the power level down by only including 2x for the uncommons, as well as using some of the weaker but thematically appropriate commons.

| Open

.188 23 Plains
.13 4 Benalish Hero
.2940 4 Benalish Infantry
.11782 4 Benalish Veteran
.5489 2 Beloved Chaplain
.8500 4 Children of Korlis
.5533 4 Dedicated Martyr
.6123 2 Doubtless One
.13434 2 Evangel of Heliod
.696 4 Keepers of the Faith
.14150 2 Paragon of New Dawns
.12277 1 Thraben Doomsayer
.11889 4 Bonds of Faith

First off, welcome aboard!

From first glance, this looks like a very balanced deck that fits very well for use with the Cleric. I'm going to give this deck a try over the weekend.

Well done & keep them coming as it looks like you might be pretty good at this!