Muppet games
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Muppet games
by muppet » 26 Feb 2015, 13:54
ALL GAMES WILL BE LEVEL 8 MONTE CARLO UNLESS STATED OTHERWISE.
I am using windows 7 laptop 4GB ram Processor scores 5.7 on windows speed test(intel core2Duo p7450 @2.13 GHZ)
Let me know if other AI's are worth comparing maybe a midgame switch AI option would help.
So armed with my new knowledge of what is supposed to be going on I thought I would play a game vs the A.I. and document what happens.
Ok I am playing pyromancer geist and the a.i is playing mono black infect.
I am playing second and have a hand of 2xLightning Bolt, Lightning Helix , Path to Exile, 2 x Steam Vents and Sulfur Falls.
Ok so despite having 3 land and some decent spells I have no white mana and 2 spells I can't cast so I muligann.
Arid Mesa, Path to Exile, Spell Snare, Sacred Foundry, Flooded Strand and Tectonic Edge. Ok this is fine for a 6 card hand on to the game.
AI plays a Swamp and ends turn.
I draw Celestial Colonnade. Given I have a Spell Snare I have to play an untapped land so Flooded Strand it is. End my turn. I don't crack the fetch obviously as I don't know if I am going to cast the Spell Snare yet.
This brings up the principal of never doing anything in magic until the absolute last time you can. Don't ask me how you program this.
Right now we have the first totally insane play by the AI. It casts Sign in Blood and targets me. I refuse to believe this is ever a winning play how can it possibly come to this conclusion having run a simulation. Unless the amount of game space covered is so small that it is pretty much making a random decision.
In case you want to run something to see what has gone wrong here I looked at the AI hand which is 2X Ichorclaw Myr, Devour Flesh, Swamp, Phyrexian Crusader.
Given this seems a critical position I will see what happens if I take back this move and make the AI take its turn again I'll do this a few times and see what happens.
Ok I got 3 taget me's then target AI twice then do nothing at all twice and a cast an Ichorclaw Myr
a target the AI a do nothing and a cast Ichorclaw Myr to finish off the set. One do nothing involved not playing the second land.
Short break bridge match back later. One possible nice option wld be a set the AI thinking until you press stop button similar to infinite mode on chess computers in the old days. They also used to show number of nodes searched if that's a relevant number in the Monte Carlo approach.
OK bridge over so I undid the plays till it played Sign and targeted me again and am continuing from there.
I draw Young Pyromancer and Steam Vents.
At the end of its turn I have to decide whether to use the fetch land this is a no brainer I have loads of land in hand and will need to cast things soon and this is the last possible moment before things untap so I get a Steam Vents end AI turn.
I draw Lightning Bolt, play Tectonic Edge and cast Young Pyromancer I want to get him online asap and even though I can't keep Spell Snare mana online I have bolt and path to deal with anything that gets into play.
Ok maybe that was a mistake from me AI casts Devour Flesh on me in its turn bye bye pyromancer.
I draw Lightning Bolt play Celestial Colonnade end my turn.
AI plays Phyrexian Crusader a nightmare for my deck I know I have to just burn him out and try to bash with the colonnade now.
At the end of his turn I bolt him. I need to get the bolts in before I have to use all my mana on activating the colonnade.
I draw and play another Celestial Colonnade. end my turn.
He attacks for 2 poison having cast Ichorclaw Myr which I counter with Spell Snare and he cast another one. At the end of his turn I bolt him I can path the other claw later. Not looking good still not got enough mana to start bashing with colonnade and no defence to crusader.
I draw Lightning Bolt and play Arid Mesa, it looks like poison is my only worry so I should try to thin my deck as much as possible with the fetch lands. If this was legacy and Brainstorm in my deck then I should not crack all the fetch lands but its modern and I have no Brainstorms.
AI plays another Phyrexian Crusader and attacks now is the last possible moment to use path on the claw so I do it.
bolt him at the end of his turn and crack the fetch now on 4 poison and 2 turns to live assuming he can attack unmolested. AI on 11 life I will need 3 colonnade attacks to win.
I draw Restoration Angel. Ok I am in fact dead at this point but I'll play on to the end.
AI attacks 8 poison I play angel at end of its turn. It somewhat pointlessly casts Disfigure on my angel.
This is another thing it does regularly that is generally bad not that it matters here as all lines win.
I attack and wait to die next turn. Now it only attacks with one crusader which is admittedly enough to win but I might have been able to block it with a Snapcaster Mage for example which I have the mana to cast, and I would then win with my next attack.
Not attacking with everything on the turn you are going to win in case of an instant removal is another common misplay by the AI.
Muppet 0 AI 1 I have played this match a few times and its basically pretty horrible for the uwr deck because the crusader is so insane against it.
overall 1.58 has won 10% of duels and 17% of games.
I am using windows 7 laptop 4GB ram Processor scores 5.7 on windows speed test(intel core2Duo p7450 @2.13 GHZ)
Let me know if other AI's are worth comparing maybe a midgame switch AI option would help.
So armed with my new knowledge of what is supposed to be going on I thought I would play a game vs the A.I. and document what happens.
Ok I am playing pyromancer geist and the a.i is playing mono black infect.
I am playing second and have a hand of 2xLightning Bolt, Lightning Helix , Path to Exile, 2 x Steam Vents and Sulfur Falls.
Ok so despite having 3 land and some decent spells I have no white mana and 2 spells I can't cast so I muligann.
Arid Mesa, Path to Exile, Spell Snare, Sacred Foundry, Flooded Strand and Tectonic Edge. Ok this is fine for a 6 card hand on to the game.
AI plays a Swamp and ends turn.
I draw Celestial Colonnade. Given I have a Spell Snare I have to play an untapped land so Flooded Strand it is. End my turn. I don't crack the fetch obviously as I don't know if I am going to cast the Spell Snare yet.
This brings up the principal of never doing anything in magic until the absolute last time you can. Don't ask me how you program this.
Right now we have the first totally insane play by the AI. It casts Sign in Blood and targets me. I refuse to believe this is ever a winning play how can it possibly come to this conclusion having run a simulation. Unless the amount of game space covered is so small that it is pretty much making a random decision.
In case you want to run something to see what has gone wrong here I looked at the AI hand which is 2X Ichorclaw Myr, Devour Flesh, Swamp, Phyrexian Crusader.
Given this seems a critical position I will see what happens if I take back this move and make the AI take its turn again I'll do this a few times and see what happens.
Ok I got 3 taget me's then target AI twice then do nothing at all twice and a cast an Ichorclaw Myr
a target the AI a do nothing and a cast Ichorclaw Myr to finish off the set. One do nothing involved not playing the second land.
Short break bridge match back later. One possible nice option wld be a set the AI thinking until you press stop button similar to infinite mode on chess computers in the old days. They also used to show number of nodes searched if that's a relevant number in the Monte Carlo approach.
OK bridge over so I undid the plays till it played Sign and targeted me again and am continuing from there.
I draw Young Pyromancer and Steam Vents.
At the end of its turn I have to decide whether to use the fetch land this is a no brainer I have loads of land in hand and will need to cast things soon and this is the last possible moment before things untap so I get a Steam Vents end AI turn.
I draw Lightning Bolt, play Tectonic Edge and cast Young Pyromancer I want to get him online asap and even though I can't keep Spell Snare mana online I have bolt and path to deal with anything that gets into play.
Ok maybe that was a mistake from me AI casts Devour Flesh on me in its turn bye bye pyromancer.
I draw Lightning Bolt play Celestial Colonnade end my turn.
AI plays Phyrexian Crusader a nightmare for my deck I know I have to just burn him out and try to bash with the colonnade now.
At the end of his turn I bolt him. I need to get the bolts in before I have to use all my mana on activating the colonnade.
I draw and play another Celestial Colonnade. end my turn.
He attacks for 2 poison having cast Ichorclaw Myr which I counter with Spell Snare and he cast another one. At the end of his turn I bolt him I can path the other claw later. Not looking good still not got enough mana to start bashing with colonnade and no defence to crusader.
I draw Lightning Bolt and play Arid Mesa, it looks like poison is my only worry so I should try to thin my deck as much as possible with the fetch lands. If this was legacy and Brainstorm in my deck then I should not crack all the fetch lands but its modern and I have no Brainstorms.
AI plays another Phyrexian Crusader and attacks now is the last possible moment to use path on the claw so I do it.
bolt him at the end of his turn and crack the fetch now on 4 poison and 2 turns to live assuming he can attack unmolested. AI on 11 life I will need 3 colonnade attacks to win.
I draw Restoration Angel. Ok I am in fact dead at this point but I'll play on to the end.
AI attacks 8 poison I play angel at end of its turn. It somewhat pointlessly casts Disfigure on my angel.
This is another thing it does regularly that is generally bad not that it matters here as all lines win.
I attack and wait to die next turn. Now it only attacks with one crusader which is admittedly enough to win but I might have been able to block it with a Snapcaster Mage for example which I have the mana to cast, and I would then win with my next attack.
Not attacking with everything on the turn you are going to win in case of an instant removal is another common misplay by the AI.
Muppet 0 AI 1 I have played this match a few times and its basically pretty horrible for the uwr deck because the crusader is so insane against it.
game.txt- (17.09 KiB) Downloaded 234 times
overall 1.58 has won 10% of duels and 17% of games.
Last edited by muppet on 26 Feb 2015, 17:15, edited 24 times in total.
Re: Muppet games
by Lodici » 26 Feb 2015, 14:13
Good stuff, very interesting - don't forget to attach the full game log at the end (with all the AI diagnostics).
Re: Muppet games
by PalladiaMors » 26 Feb 2015, 14:57
Another idea is to use Firemind game logs. That way you get to see two AI's in action at the same time, doubling the amount of plays to analyse. The only important info those logs are missing are the cards that the AI is holding, because that would also allow us to look into its card choices as well.
Like muppet, I've also noticed that the AI seems to overrate life points and underrate card advantage. For instance, it very rarely decides to cast Night's Whisper, probably seeing it as a poor play, even when it is at 20 life points and has no better use for the mana. It also comes up with plays like using Sign in Blood targeting the opponent at full health, an error that a human player would never make. I've been away from competitive Magic for years, but when I used to play, card advantage was seen as the most important advantage you could have in the game. This probably requires a little bit of balancing.
Like muppet, I've also noticed that the AI seems to overrate life points and underrate card advantage. For instance, it very rarely decides to cast Night's Whisper, probably seeing it as a poor play, even when it is at 20 life points and has no better use for the mana. It also comes up with plays like using Sign in Blood targeting the opponent at full health, an error that a human player would never make. I've been away from competitive Magic for years, but when I used to play, card advantage was seen as the most important advantage you could have in the game. This probably requires a little bit of balancing.
Last edited by PalladiaMors on 26 Feb 2015, 17:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Muppet games
by muppet » 26 Feb 2015, 15:08
here is the log up to the point we got to with the Sign in Blood play I am dummy in the bridge at the minute.
LOG (P): mod uwrflash may (yes) take a mulligan. mod uwrflash may (no) take a mulligan.
LOG (C): 1.58 may (no) take a mulligan.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=1 phase=FirstMain sims=171 time=8175
* [78/166/?] (pass)
[42/5/?] (Swamp)
MCTS cached=166
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=1 phase=SecondMain sims=198 time=8102
[71/50/?] (pass)
* [81/313/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
LOG (P): Play Flooded Strand. Put Flooded Strand onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=FirstMain sims=143 time=8131
* [61/94/?] (pass)
[57/49/?] (Swamp)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=144 time=8090
[31/7/?] (pass)
* [62/137/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=147 time=8111
[8/2/?] (pass)
[8/2/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
* [65/143/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=148 time=8094
* [65/80/?] (mod uwrflash)
[63/68/?] (1.58)
LOG (C): Pay
{B}. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Sign in Blood.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=147 time=8084
[52/34/?] (pass)
* [61/113/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=151 time=8104
[55/37/?] (pass)
[37/9/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
* [61/105/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=159 time=8150
* [69/119/?] (mod uwrflash)
[58/40/?] (1.58)
LOG (C): Pay{B}. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Sign in Blood.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=138 time=8124
[62/34/?] (pass)
* [69/104/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=150 time=8061
[58/18/?] (pass)
[61/25/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
* [71/107/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=156 time=8074
* [64/135/?] (mod uwrflash)
[51/21/?] (1.58)
LOG (C): Pay{B}. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Sign in Blood.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=150 time=8092
[41/10/?] (pass)
* [63/140/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=150 time=8144
[58/43/?] (pass)
[40/8/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
* [64/99/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=136 time=8129
[42/12/?] (mod uwrflash)
* [62/124/?] (1.58)
LOG (C): Pay{B}. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Sign in Blood.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=146 time=8129
[8/2/?] (pass)
* [70/144/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=145 time=8070
[62/54/?] (pass)
[55/20/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
* [65/71/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=156 time=8103
[34/6/?] (mod uwrflash)
* [67/150/?] (1.58)
LOG (C): Pay{B}. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Sign in Blood.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=150 time=8184
[53/35/?] (pass)
* [60/115/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=158 time=8086
* [67/65/?] (pass)
[62/38/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
[66/55/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=138 time=8113
* [60/131/?] (pass)
[31/7/?] (Swamp)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=144 time=8158
[35/6/?] (pass)
* [66/138/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=148 time=8065
[9/2/?] (pass)
* [68/144/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
[8/2/?] (Sign in Blood)
LOG (C): Pay
. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Ichorclaw Myr.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=141 time=8273
[60/56/?] (pass)
* [62/85/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=129 time=8155
[57/27/?] (pass)
[62/45/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
* [64/57/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=148 time=8151
[56/15/?] (mod uwrflash)
* [69/133/?] (1.58)
LOG (C): Pay{B}. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Sign in Blood.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=135 time=8095
[56/28/?] (pass)
* [69/107/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=143 time=8117
[64/67/?] (pass)
* [65/74/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
[9/2/?] (Sign in Blood)
LOG (C): Pay. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Ichorclaw Myr.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=149 time=8118
[50/16/?] (pass)
* [69/133/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=135 time=8201
* [67/102/?] (pass)
[66/24/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
[44/9/?] (Sign in Blood)
LOG (P): mod uwrflash may (yes) take a mulligan. mod uwrflash may (no) take a mulligan.
LOG (C): 1.58 may (no) take a mulligan.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=1 phase=FirstMain sims=171 time=8175
* [78/166/?] (pass)
[42/5/?] (Swamp)
MCTS cached=166
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=1 phase=SecondMain sims=198 time=8102
[71/50/?] (pass)
* [81/313/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
LOG (P): Play Flooded Strand. Put Flooded Strand onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=FirstMain sims=143 time=8131
* [61/94/?] (pass)
[57/49/?] (Swamp)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=144 time=8090
[31/7/?] (pass)
* [62/137/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=147 time=8111
[8/2/?] (pass)
[8/2/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
* [65/143/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=148 time=8094
* [65/80/?] (mod uwrflash)
[63/68/?] (1.58)
LOG (C): Pay
{B}. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Sign in Blood.MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=147 time=8084
[52/34/?] (pass)
* [61/113/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=151 time=8104
[55/37/?] (pass)
[37/9/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
* [61/105/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=159 time=8150
* [69/119/?] (mod uwrflash)
[58/40/?] (1.58)
LOG (C): Pay
{B}. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Sign in Blood.MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=138 time=8124
[62/34/?] (pass)
* [69/104/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=150 time=8061
[58/18/?] (pass)
[61/25/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
* [71/107/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=156 time=8074
* [64/135/?] (mod uwrflash)
[51/21/?] (1.58)
LOG (C): Pay
{B}. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Sign in Blood.MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=150 time=8092
[41/10/?] (pass)
* [63/140/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=150 time=8144
[58/43/?] (pass)
[40/8/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
* [64/99/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=136 time=8129
[42/12/?] (mod uwrflash)
* [62/124/?] (1.58)
LOG (C): Pay
{B}. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Sign in Blood.MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=146 time=8129
[8/2/?] (pass)
* [70/144/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=145 time=8070
[62/54/?] (pass)
[55/20/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
* [65/71/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=156 time=8103
[34/6/?] (mod uwrflash)
* [67/150/?] (1.58)
LOG (C): Pay
{B}. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Sign in Blood.MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=150 time=8184
[53/35/?] (pass)
* [60/115/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=158 time=8086
* [67/65/?] (pass)
[62/38/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
[66/55/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=138 time=8113
* [60/131/?] (pass)
[31/7/?] (Swamp)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=144 time=8158
[35/6/?] (pass)
* [66/138/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=148 time=8065
[9/2/?] (pass)
* [68/144/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
[8/2/?] (Sign in Blood)
LOG (C): Pay
. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Ichorclaw Myr.MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=141 time=8273
[60/56/?] (pass)
* [62/85/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=129 time=8155
[57/27/?] (pass)
[62/45/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
* [64/57/?] (Sign in Blood)
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=148 time=8151
[56/15/?] (mod uwrflash)
* [69/133/?] (1.58)
LOG (C): Pay
{B}. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Sign in Blood.MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=135 time=8095
[56/28/?] (pass)
* [69/107/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=143 time=8117
[64/67/?] (pass)
* [65/74/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
[9/2/?] (Sign in Blood)
LOG (C): Pay
. Tap Swamp. Tap Swamp. Play Ichorclaw Myr.MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=149 time=8118
[50/16/?] (pass)
* [69/133/?] (Swamp)
LOG (C): Play Swamp. Put Swamp onto the battlefield.
MCTS cached=0
MCTS cheat=false index=1 life=20 turn=3 phase=SecondMain sims=135 time=8201
* [67/102/?] (pass)
[66/24/?] (Ichorclaw Myr)
[44/9/?] (Sign in Blood)
Re: Muppet games
by Lodici » 26 Feb 2015, 16:35
Rather than clutter your thread with a load of diagnostic data you can actually post the <magarena install>/Magarena/logs/game.log file by attaching it to your first post using the Upload attachment tab available in edit mode, eg
- game.log
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Re: Muppet games
by muppet » 02 Mar 2015, 11:52
version 1.59 other conditions as game 1.
Game 2
player is modern red deck wins AI is Soul Sisters.
Player goes second and has Mountain, Goblin Guide, Ball Lightning, Hellspark Elemental, Lava Spike, Skullcrack and Incinerate.
I think this is actually pretty close. I am going to keep.
AI plays Plains Soul Warden.
I draw Mountain lucky me and play Goblin Guide and Mountain and attack.
AI gets Plains from the goblin. It plays a Plains and a Serra Ascendant and attacks.
Then it makes its first error it casts Path to Exile on my Goblin Guide before the end of its turn.
This breaks Muppets rule of doing things at the last possible moment. In this case it gives me an extra land for my turn and it fails to get another Goblin Guide trigger in its turn if it had cast the path during my combat step.
I draw Skullcrack and play a land and have to decide what to do I basically have a choice of Hellspark + Spike or Ball Lightning or Incinerate the Soul Warden at some point later and cast spike now.
No idea what is best went with Hellspark and spike.
AI casts Soul's Attendant and attacks only with the Serra. This is a common weird AI play attacking with only one creature when 2 can attack safely.
I draw Goblin Guide and play it and attack. This reveals Serra Ascendant.
AI makes the first suicide block we have seen with the attendant. Good that's one life gainer dead.
AI plays plains and casts Spectra Procession I will respond to this just deciding between Skullcrack and incinerate the Soul Warden. Life totals are a depressing AI 19 me 18. I go with Skullcrack might need the Incinerate for something later. AI attacks with both creatures life 16-16. AI has 5 1/1's in play 2 cards in hand. I have 2/2 and 4 cards.
I draw Incinerate. I attack Ajani's Pridemate revealed that will need to die when it appears I expect. dbl block from the AI so I can Incinerate one blocker killing both and saving my goblin, If it had triple blocked it would have been much better off and I can't see a drawback, but I can't actually afford to Incinerate as I have to save the mana for the Pridemate I know is coming which will get too big if I don't just kill it, I have a feeling the game is getting away from me again.
AI casts the pridemate and I Incinerate it. AI only attacks with 2 of its 3 creatures.
I draw Eidolon of the Great Revel, which is a card I'm not convinced about in general. Things looking pretty bad still 4 creatures still alive and 14-19 life totals. I play Ball Lightning and attack.
AI attacks with only 3 of the 4 leaving a lifelink 1/1 behind.
I draw Hellspark Elemental and attack. AI casts Archangel of Thune and attacks game over.
Muppet loses again muppet 0 1.59 1
Total scores vs 1.59 so far games muppet 18 1.59 8 duels 7-2.
Maybe this is another terrible matchup. I could have Incinerated the Soul Warden which would have saved a lot of trouble but probably not enough to have saved the day once the Archangel of Thune appears.
Game 2
player is modern red deck wins AI is Soul Sisters.
Player goes second and has Mountain, Goblin Guide, Ball Lightning, Hellspark Elemental, Lava Spike, Skullcrack and Incinerate.
I think this is actually pretty close. I am going to keep.
AI plays Plains Soul Warden.
I draw Mountain lucky me and play Goblin Guide and Mountain and attack.
AI gets Plains from the goblin. It plays a Plains and a Serra Ascendant and attacks.
Then it makes its first error it casts Path to Exile on my Goblin Guide before the end of its turn.
This breaks Muppets rule of doing things at the last possible moment. In this case it gives me an extra land for my turn and it fails to get another Goblin Guide trigger in its turn if it had cast the path during my combat step.
I draw Skullcrack and play a land and have to decide what to do I basically have a choice of Hellspark + Spike or Ball Lightning or Incinerate the Soul Warden at some point later and cast spike now.
No idea what is best went with Hellspark and spike.
AI casts Soul's Attendant and attacks only with the Serra. This is a common weird AI play attacking with only one creature when 2 can attack safely.
I draw Goblin Guide and play it and attack. This reveals Serra Ascendant.
AI makes the first suicide block we have seen with the attendant. Good that's one life gainer dead.
AI plays plains and casts Spectra Procession I will respond to this just deciding between Skullcrack and incinerate the Soul Warden. Life totals are a depressing AI 19 me 18. I go with Skullcrack might need the Incinerate for something later. AI attacks with both creatures life 16-16. AI has 5 1/1's in play 2 cards in hand. I have 2/2 and 4 cards.
I draw Incinerate. I attack Ajani's Pridemate revealed that will need to die when it appears I expect. dbl block from the AI so I can Incinerate one blocker killing both and saving my goblin, If it had triple blocked it would have been much better off and I can't see a drawback, but I can't actually afford to Incinerate as I have to save the mana for the Pridemate I know is coming which will get too big if I don't just kill it, I have a feeling the game is getting away from me again.
AI casts the pridemate and I Incinerate it. AI only attacks with 2 of its 3 creatures.
I draw Eidolon of the Great Revel, which is a card I'm not convinced about in general. Things looking pretty bad still 4 creatures still alive and 14-19 life totals. I play Ball Lightning and attack.
AI attacks with only 3 of the 4 leaving a lifelink 1/1 behind.
I draw Hellspark Elemental and attack. AI casts Archangel of Thune and attacks game over.
Muppet loses again muppet 0 1.59 1
Total scores vs 1.59 so far games muppet 18 1.59 8 duels 7-2.
Maybe this is another terrible matchup. I could have Incinerated the Soul Warden which would have saved a lot of trouble but probably not enough to have saved the day once the Archangel of Thune appears.
Re: Muppet games
by muppet » 05 Apr 2015, 15:00
version 1.60
I am playing Death Cloud. I have Damnation Kitchen Finks x2, Tectonic Edge, Treetop Village and Maelstrom Pulse X2. I think I keep this but its a bit close with no black mana.
I play Treetop Village and pass AI mulligans and plays a Seraph Sanctuary.
I draw Overgrown Tomb, lucky me, I play it tapped and pass. AI plays Plains, Wall of Omens and passes.
I draw Death Cloud. Play Tectonic Edge Kitchen Finks and pass. AI plays Plains Plague Myr and passes.
I draw Overgrown Tomb which I play tapped and a Kitchen Finks. AI plays Plains and Phyrexian Metamorph which copies a Finks.
I draw Abrupt Decay. Activate the village and attack with everything my plan is to simplify the board and mob up with my removal. AI loses its plague myr and a finks on each side dies and returns. My village gets a -1-1 counter from the myr. AI plays Plains Archangel of Thune which I need to kill asap.
I draw Verdant Catacombs and play it and Maelstrom Pulse the angel and pass the turn. AI plays Plague Myr and Wall of Omens. My plan now is to sit here till it gets dangerous and Damnation. I crack the fetch land for another Tomb.
I draw and play Treetop Village. AI plays Baneslayer Angel that counts as dangerous so I plan to clear the board AI has 2 cards in hand I still have Death Cloud Pulse and Abrupt Decay.
I draw Sakura-Tribe Elder and cast Damnation. This results in the first magearena problem which is the AI's Phyrexian Metamorph Kitchen Finks stays in the gy it had got back to 3/2 from the Angel's +1 +1 counter. It may have thought it shdn't come back because it had a -1-1 counter but they shd have cancelled each other.
Anyway I'll play on as there is nothing else I can do I have 2/1 finks board is clear otherwise I play the elder.
AI plays Student of Warfare Wall of Reverence.
I draw Death Cloud. I Abrupt Decay one and Maelstrom Pulse the other and attack . AI plys Phyrexian Metamorph copying Finks again. Life totals are M27 AI21.
I draw swamp which I need to keep so I can Death Cloud for one at some point without having to discard the other. I activate both man lands and attack with everything he blocks my finks killing it and reducing his to needing just one removal spell unless he gets another archangel.
Or that's what I thought wld happen but of course it can copy when it returns to play and it comes back as a treetop village with a -1-1 counter on it. So that is a possible explanation of where the last one went I guess.
AI casts Oblivion Ring which is a mistake I simply sacrifice my elder and it has no targets. I get a swamp.
I draw Victim of Night and attack with the man lands. M 27 AI 10 can I finally win one.
AI plays Student of Warfare and Sublime Archangel.
I draw Eternal Witness AI has no cards in hand so I just have to work out the best way to clear the board again to make way for the man lands. I cast eternal witness get damnation and cast it board is clear and I have death clouds and victim of night in hand. AI plays Wall of Reverence.
I draw Swamp kill the wall and attack for 5. AI does nothing.
I draw Tarmogoyf and cast it and attack ai is on 2. AI plays a last ditch Voice of All but it can't stop lethal.
This was a game pretty much in the players hands I got a bit lucky with the hand I kept and getting the black mana but once I had there wasn't much the AI cld ever do I think.
Muppet 1 AI 2
totals vs 1.60
Muppet 75% AI 25% games : Muppet 79% AI 21% Duels.
I am playing Death Cloud. I have Damnation Kitchen Finks x2, Tectonic Edge, Treetop Village and Maelstrom Pulse X2. I think I keep this but its a bit close with no black mana.
I play Treetop Village and pass AI mulligans and plays a Seraph Sanctuary.
I draw Overgrown Tomb, lucky me, I play it tapped and pass. AI plays Plains, Wall of Omens and passes.
I draw Death Cloud. Play Tectonic Edge Kitchen Finks and pass. AI plays Plains Plague Myr and passes.
I draw Overgrown Tomb which I play tapped and a Kitchen Finks. AI plays Plains and Phyrexian Metamorph which copies a Finks.
I draw Abrupt Decay. Activate the village and attack with everything my plan is to simplify the board and mob up with my removal. AI loses its plague myr and a finks on each side dies and returns. My village gets a -1-1 counter from the myr. AI plays Plains Archangel of Thune which I need to kill asap.
I draw Verdant Catacombs and play it and Maelstrom Pulse the angel and pass the turn. AI plays Plague Myr and Wall of Omens. My plan now is to sit here till it gets dangerous and Damnation. I crack the fetch land for another Tomb.
I draw and play Treetop Village. AI plays Baneslayer Angel that counts as dangerous so I plan to clear the board AI has 2 cards in hand I still have Death Cloud Pulse and Abrupt Decay.
I draw Sakura-Tribe Elder and cast Damnation. This results in the first magearena problem which is the AI's Phyrexian Metamorph Kitchen Finks stays in the gy it had got back to 3/2 from the Angel's +1 +1 counter. It may have thought it shdn't come back because it had a -1-1 counter but they shd have cancelled each other.
Anyway I'll play on as there is nothing else I can do I have 2/1 finks board is clear otherwise I play the elder.
AI plays Student of Warfare Wall of Reverence.
I draw Death Cloud. I Abrupt Decay one and Maelstrom Pulse the other and attack . AI plys Phyrexian Metamorph copying Finks again. Life totals are M27 AI21.
I draw swamp which I need to keep so I can Death Cloud for one at some point without having to discard the other. I activate both man lands and attack with everything he blocks my finks killing it and reducing his to needing just one removal spell unless he gets another archangel.
Or that's what I thought wld happen but of course it can copy when it returns to play and it comes back as a treetop village with a -1-1 counter on it. So that is a possible explanation of where the last one went I guess.
AI casts Oblivion Ring which is a mistake I simply sacrifice my elder and it has no targets. I get a swamp.
I draw Victim of Night and attack with the man lands. M 27 AI 10 can I finally win one.
AI plays Student of Warfare and Sublime Archangel.
I draw Eternal Witness AI has no cards in hand so I just have to work out the best way to clear the board again to make way for the man lands. I cast eternal witness get damnation and cast it board is clear and I have death clouds and victim of night in hand. AI plays Wall of Reverence.
I draw Swamp kill the wall and attack for 5. AI does nothing.
I draw Tarmogoyf and cast it and attack ai is on 2. AI plays a last ditch Voice of All but it can't stop lethal.
This was a game pretty much in the players hands I got a bit lucky with the hand I kept and getting the black mana but once I had there wasn't much the AI cld ever do I think.
Muppet 1 AI 2
totals vs 1.60
Muppet 75% AI 25% games : Muppet 79% AI 21% Duels.
- Attachments
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- game.log
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Re: Muppet games
by ShawnieBoy » 05 Apr 2015, 17:19
Looking at the log, the AI chooses not to return Phyrexian Metamorph from the graveyard. This would make sense as there's no creatures or artifacts in play for it to copy.
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Re: Muppet games
by muppet » 01 May 2015, 14:53
Version 1.61.
I am Boros burn. I have tricky mulligan decision to start with: Wooded Foothills, Boros Charm, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Monastery Swiftspear, Vexing Devil and Shard Volley.
You may have noticed by now I never mulligan unless I absolutely have to so I keep. Play the land and Swiftspear attack go.
AI plays swamp Typhoid Rats go.
I draw Eidolon of the Great Revel, bolt rats attack go.
AI plays swamp go.
I draw Vexing Devil and play it, AI unusually makes the mistake of letting it come into play, maybe he has loads of removal i'll have a look. Indeed he has two Heroes Downfall, 3 land and a Desecration Demon so maybe this is ok. I attack go
AI plays swamp and immediately kills the devil.
I draw land play eidolon and attack.
AI plays swamp demon go.
I draw Lightning Helix really need a land sometime soon to deal with demon. I play the other devil. Life me 14 AI 15. go.
AI plays Mutavault, Gray Merchant of Asphodel and attacks me 4 life it 19 not looking healthy have to get rid of Eidolon soon but can always sac it to demon. go.
I draw land, phew I have a chance. I attack AI blocks my devil with merchant. go.
We get to the declare attackers phase I sac the eidolon to the demon now I would have expected this to all go on the stack and then I was hoping I can kill the demon while it is 6/6 so either I got the rules wrong or mage arena did I'll look the rules up. Ok magearena has the rules right as usual when I'm not sure.
So I am in trouble as the demon got to 7/7 and my burn spells are for 6 anyway will play on and see if I can draw more or burn him out in time. AI casts downfall on my swift spear but I save it with charm as I may need it to stop the demon soon. go.
I draw mountain unfortunately I have 9 points of burn but only one white source and I need 2 for all the spells. Anyway I shd be able to sac things to the demon for a few turns. I attack he animates the Mutavault I kill it with helix. life now me 7 him 10 I may be able to burn him out yet go.
I sac the swift spear to the demon he bile blights the devil looking bad again he has 3 cards I have 2 burn spells. go
I draw lightning helix so I have no option but to burn him and take 8 from the demon next turn. go
AI attacks life me 2 him 7 I have 6 points of burn.
I draw Goblin Guide so I will now win unless he can kill it lets see I attack. AI casts Heroes Downfall muppet loses again.
Muppet 1 AI 3.
I am Boros burn. I have tricky mulligan decision to start with: Wooded Foothills, Boros Charm, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Monastery Swiftspear, Vexing Devil and Shard Volley.
You may have noticed by now I never mulligan unless I absolutely have to so I keep. Play the land and Swiftspear attack go.
AI plays swamp Typhoid Rats go.
I draw Eidolon of the Great Revel, bolt rats attack go.
AI plays swamp go.
I draw Vexing Devil and play it, AI unusually makes the mistake of letting it come into play, maybe he has loads of removal i'll have a look. Indeed he has two Heroes Downfall, 3 land and a Desecration Demon so maybe this is ok. I attack go
AI plays swamp and immediately kills the devil.
I draw land play eidolon and attack.
AI plays swamp demon go.
I draw Lightning Helix really need a land sometime soon to deal with demon. I play the other devil. Life me 14 AI 15. go.
AI plays Mutavault, Gray Merchant of Asphodel and attacks me 4 life it 19 not looking healthy have to get rid of Eidolon soon but can always sac it to demon. go.
I draw land, phew I have a chance. I attack AI blocks my devil with merchant. go.
We get to the declare attackers phase I sac the eidolon to the demon now I would have expected this to all go on the stack and then I was hoping I can kill the demon while it is 6/6 so either I got the rules wrong or mage arena did I'll look the rules up. Ok magearena has the rules right as usual when I'm not sure.
So I am in trouble as the demon got to 7/7 and my burn spells are for 6 anyway will play on and see if I can draw more or burn him out in time. AI casts downfall on my swift spear but I save it with charm as I may need it to stop the demon soon. go.
I draw mountain unfortunately I have 9 points of burn but only one white source and I need 2 for all the spells. Anyway I shd be able to sac things to the demon for a few turns. I attack he animates the Mutavault I kill it with helix. life now me 7 him 10 I may be able to burn him out yet go.
I sac the swift spear to the demon he bile blights the devil looking bad again he has 3 cards I have 2 burn spells. go
I draw lightning helix so I have no option but to burn him and take 8 from the demon next turn. go
AI attacks life me 2 him 7 I have 6 points of burn.
I draw Goblin Guide so I will now win unless he can kill it lets see I attack. AI casts Heroes Downfall muppet loses again.
Muppet 1 AI 3.
Re: Muppet games
by muppet » 01 May 2015, 15:39
Eidolon of the Great Revel was terrible as usual. Maybe I missed a chance to deal one extra point with the Monastery Swiftspear given I thought I was killing the Desecration Demon not racing it, its possible I cld have cast a burn spell in my turn at some point.
Re: Muppet games
by Huggybaby » 22 May 2015, 03:16
Hey Lodici, your example log has been downloaded 12 times, congratulations.Lodici wrote:Rather than clutter your thread with a load of diagnostic data you can actually post the <magarena install>/Magarena/logs/game.log file by attaching it to your first post using the Upload attachment tab available in edit mode, eg
viewtopic.php?p=173978#p173978
Now I need to figure out why.
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