Manalink Update 8/19: Challenge Mode 7 + Planeswalkers

[somacat]

I feel that making challenge mode optional would pretty much invalidate it; and I feel this would be a bad idea.

Many players seem to have enjoyed this mode alot. Sure, it can be frustrating at times, but I feel this is a good reason to keep the mode as-is. If you made unlocking the cards optional, there would be no reason to persist with a challenge that has been troubling you - and this would take away much of the elated feeling you get when you actually beat a difficult challenge and unlock cards. I feel there needs to be a reward at the end of the challenge mode to motivate people to play it.

I also feel the mode has added a level to the community through the threads created on the various challenges, where players discuss their strategies, share their winning decklists, and show their excitement once they've won.

I do agree however, that the challenges cater for the more experienced player rather than the novice. My solution would be to unlock the cards after a period of time; in fact, jatill has already written that he plans to unlock many of the cards once Zendikar comes out. That way, you either have the option of grinding through the challenges, or simply waiting it out for several months.

In the end, jatill has taken nothing away from the game or new players (as such I wouldn't consider it a 'penalty' for new players at all), but added an interesting new mode and unlockable cards as an incentive to play through the mode. In addition to everything else he has done for this game and us.

I understand you are trying to look out for the 'little guy', which is admirable (I'm a social worker - I understand the theory...). However, your post makes it seem as though you feel slighted by the fact some cards are not immediately available. I would instead focus on the *many* additions jatill has made to this game on his own time and effort that are available to you.

And is it really that much trouble to make a backup copy of the game if you need to reformat? I'd just use a flash drive / external hard drive - or even burn a copy to CD...

I don't mean to sound like I'm flaming, merely trying to offer a counter-point.

[jzurawski99]

I am a novice Magic player and I do find that the challenges keep me coming back, and also force me to research the cards more thoroughly. But my only suggestion would be to allow the saving of an in-progress challenge (if possible). It is extremely frustrating to almost make it to the end of a challenge only to have the program crash or freeze. This more than anything would make me abandon the challenge mode.

Anyway, I really appreciate all the work that you all have put into reviving an excellent program. I played it back in the day and really appreciate being able to play it again. Keep up the great work.

[0rion79]

Somacat, I don't remember reading of you before but I'm here from A LOT of time and have given my contribute in creating some of the cards that you are using right now.

I think I've been clear enough: I don't like the unlocking system and IMHO it is a wrong thing. And yes, I would like to be able to use all cards immediately.

I'm part of the community as well. Maybe you don't consider that in the community there are minorities with the same rights as others but with different needs: I'm among them. Always in short of time because of work, I always keep a copy of Magic the gathering both on my desktop PC and on my notebook to have a game that offers a quick, 5-minutes break and I also almost love more to builds deck than to play. This unlocking system prevents me to do so, that's why I don't like it at all.

Imho, it would be ok if cards would be unlocked after 1 month or 2 of their "official" release, hoping that Jatill won't get exhausetd again and stops modding for a long time. I'm patient, I can wait.

[somacat]

As I said, I was not trying to flame you. And as I said, I am a social worker. It's my *job* to work with minorities in the community.

I realise you have added to this community, and thank you. But I guess my point is that jatill probably wouldn't have coded these cards at all if it weren't for him making Challenge mode. And without them as rewards, Challenge mode would be pretty much dead. Which would suck for another part of the community than the one you described.

And to reiterate; jatill has said he will unlock most of the cards upon Zendikar's release. See viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1504

As i have said, I agree with the policy of unlocking cards 'down the track' enough to have let everyone who is going to play through challenge mode. It is the only solution I can think of whereby unlocking the cards doesn't defeat the purpose of having created them in the first place.

And hey, you can build decks with the new cards, you just can't play them...

[thedrigo]

As I've said before, I'm more of a casual player than anything. However, I feel that this mode is something that was created for the community without trying to actively discriminate anybody; I believe the challenges were created with the best interest of the community in mind, just as adding immediately usable cards, creating Draft and Vanguard, creating launchers, filters, etc., were.

As far as the difficulty level of the challenges is concerned, multiple threads have appeared to help EVERYONE beat the challenges, novices as well as more experienced deckbuilders. There is no deliberate limitations to discriminate against the new players, as the others who've beaten the challenges have willingly offered to help the ones who've had/are having problems.

Jatill said most of the cards will be unlocked after Zendikar comes out, so people who don't want to take the time to beat the challenge don't have to do it and can wait until then; on the other hand, making challenge mode optional will ruin the incentive to make the effort, therefore making it pointless for the players who want to take the time to beat it and earn the cards the hard way. If we look at it like that, who's being discriminated then?

I'm not trying to flame either but I really believe nobody is out to limit anyone's experience. I respect the fact that some don't want to go through the challenge mode process, but that doesn't mean that, given the alternative, it's OK to ruin it for the ones who do enjoy it.

[0rion79]

Yes: you are right and I also absolutely agree that making it optional would waste the idea itself - when I wrote that I was stating to an old Jatill's sencente that I've red some time ago, where he was not going to unlock any of the new cars, ever, and when I saw ANOTHER locked release and Ring of Ma'Ruf didn't work with Jester's Cap... well, you know it. Sadly, working so much I don't have time to read all new threads and I already have troubles in following one single discussion. Anyway, I also believe that unlocking them with a sufficient delay will be an optimal compromise that won't waste the fun for the ones that want to take the challenge and will make happy all the remaining players, that don't want or cannot take that challenge, too.

[Fracturedorb]

I'll be glad once they are time released. I'm using Vista and about 1/2 the cards in the game seem to crash the game. I've learned which ones they are and work around them, but some of them are in the challenege decks I think and the game tends to puke when it comes across them.

[Salbei]

Jatill said most of the cards will be unlocked after Zendikar comes out, so people who don't want to take the time to beat the challenge don't have to do it and can wait until then; on the other hand, making challenge mode optional will ruin the incentive to make the effort, therefore making it pointless for the players who want to take the time to beat it and earn the cards the hard way. If we look at it like that, who's being discriminated then?

I'm not trying to flame either but I really believe nobody is out to limit anyone's experience. I respect the fact that some don't want to go through the challenge mode process, but that doesn't mean that, given the alternative, it's OK to ruin it for the ones who do enjoy it.

people also play momir or sealed deck without any reward , or ? was fun to try it out for a few days but the constant crashes during the later rounds just made me wanna puke over and over again.i haven´t played with goblin welder since the game was released - so i could wait another few month for it

[bandera]

I dont understand the rules for challenge mode "10:1 odds" =/

My opponent need 10 lands in play and I only 1 before win?
If I have 5 lands, I cant win?

[somacat]

Challenge 7 asks you to 'meet a condition' before winning a round. For example, in round 1, meeting the condition of 'controlling ten land while the AI controls one'. If, at any time in the game, you control exactly one land while the AI controls exactly ten, a poison counter will appear on your life total (it looks like a little bug or spider). Once you see that, you are safe to win, or play more lands or whatever.

You can certainly play more lands early - just make sure you have a way to sacrifice / bounce / destroy all of your lands except one once the AI has 10 (perhaps with Zuran Orb, or Strip Mine + Crucible of Worlds).

EDIT: You can still win the game even if you don't meet the condition. But at the beginning of the next game, it will tell you "Sorry, you didn't meet the victory condition for last match' and give you a loss.

[bandera]

How I can make my opponent play 10 turns? Time Warp and others only target me (just in game) oO
And no Chronatogs or Eater of Days :s

[aww1979]

I kept bouncing my Time Vault at end of turn with Master Transmuter. You could do it with Meditate as well, but my game crashed when I tried that because of all the Timetwisters and crap flying around. And yeah, the first thing that came into my head when I saw that challenge was Chronatog :p

[bandera]

Mind over Matter works better. thx ;D
Now...how I make my opponent had 10 artifacts?!?!

[aww1979]

Mind over Matter works better. thx ;D
Now...how I make my opponent had 10 artifacts?!?!

In the challenge #7 spoilers thread, I posted what I did for each round.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1532&start=30

[stassy]

Is there a way to have the list of all the deck used in the Challenges? I think I have some but not all.