It is currently 16 Apr 2024, 09:38
   
Text Size

[confirmed]Tokens and mana costs

Report wrong Card behavior to get it fixed.
PLEASE ADD SAVEGAMES TO YOUR TOPIC !

Moderators: BAgate, drool66, Aswan jaguar, gmzombie, stassy, CCGHQ Admins

[confirmed]Tokens and mana costs

Postby Korath » 26 Apr 2017, 17:14

Describe the bug:
Permanents are considered to have mana costs if 1) they aren't token-only ids like "Elf Warrior", and 2) they aren't tokens. Some consequences:
  1. Tokens that are created as copies of cards with mana costs have no mana costs, but should. (Repro: Debug yourself a Khalni Hydra onto the bf, cast a Dance of Many targeting it, and debug cast an Aspect of Hydra on either hydra. It should get +16/+16 and become 24/24; it gets only +8/+8 and becomes 16/16.)
  2. Copies of tokens that aren't token-only cards (like "Elf Warrior") have mana costs, but shouldn't. (Repro: Debug yourself a Plaguebearer, a Llanowar Mentor, and a bunch of lands onto the bf, activate the Mentor creating a token named "Llanowar Elves", cast a Clone copying the token, and activate the Plaguebearer on the Clone. It should cost {B}, but costs {2} {B}.)
Also, tokens like those created by Llanowar Mentor display with a mana cost in their fullcards. (A token copy, such as from Dance of Many, of a non-token card does too, and still should.)

Which card behaved improperly?
get_cmc() and count_chroma().

Which update are you using?
Dev b5c912b.

What exactly should be the correct behavior/interaction?
Tokens that are created as copies of other objects should have those objects' mana costs. Tokens that aren't shouldn't. Copies of tokens should have the same mana costs, or lack thereof, of those tokens.

202.1b Some objects have no mana cost. This normally includes all land cards, any other cards that have no mana symbols where their mana cost would appear, tokens (unless the effect that creates them specifies otherwise), and nontraditional Magic cards. Having no mana cost represents an unpayable cost (see rule 117.6). Note that lands are played without paying any costs (see rule 305, "Lands").

706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object's characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The "copiable values" are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by "as . . . enters the battlefield" and "as . . . is turned face up" abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set additional characteristics). Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
Example: Chimeric Staff is an artifact that reads " {X}: Chimeric Staff becomes an X/X artifact creature until end of turn." Clone is a creature that reads, "You may have Clone enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield." After a Staff has become a 5/5 artifact creature, a Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of it. The Clone is an artifact, not a 5/5 artifact creature. (The copy has the Staff's ability, however, and will become a creature if that ability is activated.)
Example: Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of a face-down Grinning Demon (a creature with morph {2} {B} {B}). The Clone is a colorless 2/2 creature with no name, no types, no abilities, and no mana cost. It will still be face up. Its controller can't pay {2} {B} {B} to turn it face up.

Are any other cards possibly affected by this bug?
I don't even want to try with face-down cards.

There aren't many cards that make tokens that are neither copies nor token-only ids. I can only find Cloudseeder, Goldmeadow Lookout, Kher Keep (which doesn't matter), Llanowar Mentor, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher (which also doesn't matter), Skirk Ridge Exhumer, Sliversmith, and Sparkspitter.

I didn't test it, but it looks like cards that care about the cmc of spells on the stack will consider copies of spells to have no mana cost, too.

Will, of course, be an issue with embalm, which is how I found this in the first place.
Last edited by Aswan jaguar on 28 Apr 2017, 05:57, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: confirmed bug
User avatar
Korath
DEVELOPER
 
Posts: 3707
Joined: 02 Jun 2013, 05:57
Has thanked: 496 times
Been thanked: 1106 times

Re: Tokens and mana costs

Postby Aswan jaguar » 28 Apr 2017, 05:55

I confirm all the bugs in public version, too.

Korath wrote:I don't even want to try with face-down cards.
If the test is similar to the ones posted in the describe the bug section it seems they work fine(about original bug Tokens and mana costs).If else please give an example.

I didn't test the
Korath wrote: I didn't test it, but it looks like cards that care about the cmc of spells on the stack will consider copies of spells to have no mana cost, too.
I will later on the day.....on hold.I got confused with how things should work and how things work in manalink which in some cases the manalink way is the only way I know and play mtg so Manalink way is under my skin (hopefully I used correctly the saying) and that makes it a lot more difficult for me to test some cases.In short I gave up. :oops:
Last edited by Aswan jaguar on 05 May 2017, 12:11, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited-striekethrough not tested-add reason
---
Trying to squash some bugs and playtesting.
User avatar
Aswan jaguar
Super Tester Elite
 
Posts: 8078
Joined: 13 May 2010, 12:17
Has thanked: 730 times
Been thanked: 458 times


Return to Bug Reports

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


Who is online

In total there are 23 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 23 guests (based on users active over the past 10 minutes)
Most users ever online was 4143 on 23 Jan 2024, 08:21

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests

Login Form