[confirmed]The Chain Veil again
Report wrong Card behavior to get it fixed.
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[confirmed]The Chain Veil again
by Korath » 04 Nov 2017, 17:11
Describe the bug:
The Chain Veil doesn't do any of what it says on the card: it has no end-step trigger, and its activated ability makes all planeswalkers currently controlled by its activator behave as if they hadn't been activated yet this turn. Some scenarios illustrating what's wrong with the second half of that (in decreasing order of ever actually happening):
The Chain Veil.
Which update are you using? (date, name)Which type? (duel, gauntlet, sealed deck)
d7190bc from 2017 Nov 2.
What exactly should be the correct behavior/interaction?
The trigger is easy. It should be there, it isn't.
The activated ability is less straightforward than it looks like on the card. First, the ruling, which is totally unsupported by the wording on the card itself:
7/18/2014: Because the last ability modifies the rules of the game, it affects not only planeswalkers you control when it resolves, but also planeswalkers that come under your control later in the turn.
Comprehensive Rule 606.3 is the rule modified, for reference:
606.3. A player may activate a loyalty ability of a permanent he or she controls any time he or she has priority and the stack is empty during a main phase of his or her turn, but only if no player has previously activated a loyalty ability of that permanent that turn.
What The Chain Veil does is to increase the number of times that player can activate each planeswalker that turn. What's unintuitive is that that number is normally 0, not 1: the activation allowed by 606.3 is completely unrelated to it. If each player activates The Chain Veil twice, and there's some horrible combination of Teferi emblems, self-untapping Bazaar Trader s, and Liquimetal Coating on the bf that lets players trade planeswalkers back and forth at will, a given planeswalker can be activated exactly five times: twice by one player, twice by the other, and once by whoever happens to do it first.
Are any other cards possibly affected by this bug?
The previous bugs (1, 2, 3) aren't directly relevant, despite some of them having symptoms in common with these, since the card's been rewritten since they were reported.
(...The activated ability isn't supposed to interact with Staying Power at all, is it?)
The Chain Veil doesn't do any of what it says on the card: it has no end-step trigger, and its activated ability makes all planeswalkers currently controlled by its activator behave as if they hadn't been activated yet this turn. Some scenarios illustrating what's wrong with the second half of that (in decreasing order of ever actually happening):
- You can't activate The Chain Veil first, then activate your planeswalker twice afterwards.
- You can't activate a planeswalker, Donate it, activate The Chain Veil, Confiscate the planeswalker back, then activate the planeswalker again.
- If your opponent has Teferi, Temporal Archmage's emblem, you can activate a planeswalker, activate The Chain Veil, Donate the planeswalker, and watch your opponent activate it.
The Chain Veil.
Which update are you using? (date, name)Which type? (duel, gauntlet, sealed deck)
d7190bc from 2017 Nov 2.
What exactly should be the correct behavior/interaction?
The trigger is easy. It should be there, it isn't.
The activated ability is less straightforward than it looks like on the card. First, the ruling, which is totally unsupported by the wording on the card itself:
7/18/2014: Because the last ability modifies the rules of the game, it affects not only planeswalkers you control when it resolves, but also planeswalkers that come under your control later in the turn.
Comprehensive Rule 606.3 is the rule modified, for reference:
606.3. A player may activate a loyalty ability of a permanent he or she controls any time he or she has priority and the stack is empty during a main phase of his or her turn, but only if no player has previously activated a loyalty ability of that permanent that turn.
What The Chain Veil does is to increase the number of times that player can activate each planeswalker that turn. What's unintuitive is that that number is normally 0, not 1: the activation allowed by 606.3 is completely unrelated to it. If each player activates The Chain Veil twice, and there's some horrible combination of Teferi emblems, self-untapping Bazaar Trader s, and Liquimetal Coating on the bf that lets players trade planeswalkers back and forth at will, a given planeswalker can be activated exactly five times: twice by one player, twice by the other, and once by whoever happens to do it first.
Are any other cards possibly affected by this bug?
The previous bugs (1, 2, 3) aren't directly relevant, despite some of them having symptoms in common with these, since the card's been rewritten since they were reported.
(...The activated ability isn't supposed to interact with Staying Power at all, is it?)
Last edited by Aswan jaguar on 20 Nov 2017, 14:03, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: confirmed
Reason: confirmed
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Korath - DEVELOPER
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Re: [confirmed]The Chain Veil again
by Aswan jaguar » 20 Nov 2017, 14:25
I confirm the end step trigger and the 2 bulletin points.I couldn't test the 3nd bulletin point AI wasn't cooperating.
Isn't it? I guess it all depends on the headaches you want to have trying to code Staying Power.Korath wrote:(...The activated ability isn't supposed to interact with Staying Power at all, is it?)
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Trying to squash some bugs and playtesting.
Trying to squash some bugs and playtesting.
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Aswan jaguar - Super Tester Elite
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