MTG Forge 03/10 - with Quest Mode

[Rob Cashwalker]

True. I could even let you know way well beforehand, so you get an earlier start.
In fact, I'll PM you some of the new cards right now

{GASP} Did anyone just notice we're like a real software development team now?

[GandoTheBard]

"We" meaning you and Dennis?

Anyway another bug: Apparently the decks I edited for the AI can be used by me during quest mode. This is really not a good idea. Though it is interesting to see myself be manascrewed the same way the AI is. Usually Manascrew is just a part of the bad shuffling. But with this Dragon deck I think its systematic. Anyway I noticed after 2 games (1 each) the game became intolerably slow. No explanation comes to mind except that there must be some evil loop at fault.

[Rob Cashwalker]

"We" meaning you and Dennis?

No... "we" the team. {bob the builder}Can we fix it?{/bob the builder}
Rares
Dennis
jpb
Rob
verot
Chris
Gando
Mr. Chaos
(Mr. anybody else)

I mean c'mon everyone seems to have their niche here... invaluable dedication... and now, I just have an inkling that this project just turned the corner onto a big road...

[mtgrares]

Yeah the quest mode is still a buggy but it is at least playble. I've had a good time with it. For convienance Quest uses common.txt, uncommon.txt, rare.txt, but you can change QuestData.java to read from different files. Questing generates many save files, maybe too many. Probably the QuestData should keep 10 old save files and when it creates a new save file it deletes the oldest one. I occansionally get beaten by the Battle of Wits deck and it is sometimes annoying and/or funny.

Unfortunately the code below has not been tested so it may not completely work, my computer doesn't like newer versions of Java.

Some Errors:
1. The "Smooth AI Land" button doesn't work - I forgot to implement it.
2. The Deck Editor gives your deck the name test, I have no idea why but I'm sure I coded it somewhere.
3. I tried to make the Deck Editor open your current deck, but it doesn't work. Gui_Quest_DeckEditor.show(Command c) should be

Code: Select all

    public void show(final Command exitCommand)
  {
    final Command exit = new Command()
    {
      public void execute()
      {
        Gui_Quest_DeckEditor.this.dispose();
        exitCommand.execute();
      }
    };

    customMenu = new Gui_Quest_DeckEditor_Menu(this, exit);
    this.setJMenuBar(customMenu);


    //do not change this!!!!
    this.addWindowListener(new WindowAdapter()
    {
      public void windowClosing(WindowEvent ev)
      {
        customMenu.close();
      }
    });


    setup();


    //convert Deck main into CardList to show on the screen
    CardList bottom = new CardList();

/*
//this code works but something else in the program isn't working
//this code will probably be useful in the future

    if(Constant.Runtime.HumanDeck[0] != null)
    {
      Deck d = Constant.Runtime.HumanDeck[0];
      for(int i = 0; i < d.countMain(); i++)
        bottom.add(AllZone.CardFactory.getCard(d.getMain(i), ""));

      setTitle("Deck Editor - " +d.getName());
    }


    ArrayList list = AllZone.QuestData.getCardpool();
    CardList cardpool = Gui_Quest_DeckEditor_Menu.covertToCardList(list);

    //remove bottom cards that are in the deck from the card pool
    for(int i = 0; i < bottom.size(); i++)
    {
      if(cardpool.containsName(bottom.get(i).getName()))
        cardpool.remove(bottom.get(i).getName());
    }
*/

    //show cards, makes this user friendly, lol, well may, ha
    updateDisplay(cardpool, bottom);

    //this affects the card pool
    topModel.sort(4, true);//sort by type
    topModel.sort(3, true);//then sort by color

    bottomModel.sort(1, true);
  }//show(Command)

4. You only win common cards - QuestData.addCards() needs to be replaced with this code

Code: Select all

  //adds 10 cards, to the current card pool
  //(I chose 10 cards instead of 15 in order to make things more challenging)
  public void addCards()
  {
    int nCommon = 6;
    int nUncommon = 3;
    int nRare = 1;

    ArrayList newCards = new ArrayList();
    newCards.addAll(boosterPack.getCommon(nCommon));
    newCards.addAll(boosterPack.getUncommon(nUncommon));
    newCards.addAll(boosterPack.getRare(nRare));

    cardPool.addAll(newCards);

    //getAddedCards() uses newCardList
    newCardList = newCards;

  }//addCards()

[mtgrares]

The quest decks were randomly picked out of a list. I was using an older version of MTG Forge to develop the quest mode so I used random, older decks. Some decks are a little mean like the red Kiki-jiki deck with Flametongue Kavus and Fire Imps, (I have a hard time winning against that one).

[DennisBergkamp]

Cool, I'll play around with this code and see if I can get it to work

[mtgrares]

The manalinkers are facing the same problem, but they are addressing it by using our wiki, and by trying to follow some release rules. You guys could easily do the same since you are well familiar with each other and are used to working as a team.

Hubbybaby - Who or what are the manalinkers?

[mtgrares]

White Shield Crusader blocks my mogg fanatic. During normal combat damage assignment I sack my mogg to deal 1 to the player. White Shield Crusader lives with 1 assigned damage on it. Had to kill it with a spell. If I had known it had erroneous protection from red Id have funeral charmed it first. :/

I've had this happen during a regular game. It seems to sometimes happen when you quickly press the OK button. I know this is completely random and very hard to test/fix. This is again another phase problem.

[Huggybaby]

Hubbybaby - Who or what are the manalinkers?

Hubbybaby is funny. Manalinkers are just what I called the guys working on Shandalar/Manalink at http://www.slightlymagic.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=25.

And here's your wiki, you can call it Card Forge if you want: http://www.slightlymagic.net/wiki/MTG_Forge. I don't know wiki very well, Snacko has put up a lot of the stuff. Anyway, feel free to use it or not, as you like.

[Rob Cashwalker]

Hubbybaby - Who or what are the manalinkers?

Hubbybaby is funny. Manalinkers are just what I called the guys working on Shandalar/Manalink at http://www.slightlymagic.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=25.

And here's your wiki, you can call it Card Forge if you want: http://www.slightlymagic.net/wiki/MTG_Forge. I don't know wiki very well, Snacko has put up a lot of the stuff. Anyway, feel free to use it or not, as you like.

Clicking "Random Page" on the MTGForge wiki links into other wiki's....

[DennisBergkamp]

Anyway another bug: Apparently the decks I edited for the AI can be used by me during quest mode. This is really not a good idea. Though it is interesting to see myself be manascrewed the same way the AI is. Usually Manascrew is just a part of the bad shuffling. But with this Dragon deck I think its systematic. Anyway I noticed after 2 games (1 each) the game became intolerably slow. No explanation comes to mind except that there must be some evil loop at fault.

I'm not sure what deck this is exactly. But when I hear "evil loop", only one card comes to mind... does this deck have Anger in it, by any chance?

[GandoTheBard]

Anyway another bug: Apparently the decks I edited for the AI can be used by me during quest mode. This is really not a good idea. Though it is interesting to see myself be manascrewed the same way the AI is. Usually Manascrew is just a part of the bad shuffling. But with this Dragon deck I think its systematic. Anyway I noticed after 2 games (1 each) the game became intolerably slow. No explanation comes to mind except that there must be some evil loop at fault.

I'm not sure what deck this is exactly. But when I hear "evil loop", only one card comes to mind... does this deck have Anger in it, by any chance?

Er no? I did list this deck in THIS thread so you can see what deck I mean.

[GandoTheBard]

Some more titles (not in any particular order)

Code: Select all

Absolute Scrub
Novice Flopper
Shuffler
State Champion
National Champion
Net Decker
Dojo Apprentice (refencing posters on thedojo.com which was a great repository of decks/strategies and politics in the mtg world)
Dojo Expert (see Apprentice)
Dojo Master (see Apprentice)
MinMaxer
Mr Suitcase (just a funny reference to old school players who carried suitcases full of cards to tourneys just so they could trade.)
Miser (another magic slang reference)
Zvi (If you mention Jon, you must reference Zvi as well imho)
generic Store Owner
Famous Store Owner
generic mtg writer
well known mtg writer
famous mtg writer
Grand Prix Regular
Grand Prix Winner
International Champion
Protour Regular
Washout
Casual player
Good Casual Player
Amature Champion
Pack Cracker
Box Cracker


That's all I could think of off the top of my head.

[GandoTheBard]

Another aspect of this that has not really been properly addressed is deck strength vs difficulty level.

I do not think players should be able to always select the deck they know they can beat. For instance Silver Surfer is just weak, even my version of it does not fair well against a fast green red/black red deck. And ironicly in the 10 or so quests that Ive done so far almost all the starting decks are red green or red black because blue and white get completely shafted by the randomizer and usually its only through playing 22 lands 18 cards that I can even get a 2 color deck together. (Im not thrilled with this ratio but it seems better than splashing double color costed cards to make up the 5 card difference. Particularly if you have to go into two colors to do it. Now granted I am a picky builder...there are some cards I consider as working for the enemy and wont play them. But even so the randomization should be better. Each commonality needs balancing in terms how frequently the colors are represented. I also noticed a fairly large lack of multicolor cards which could make this alot more interesting. If I am going to be tempted into playing with cards that are not only bad but detrimental, they should at least give a little fun back.

Anyway aside from my off topic comments here are some standard difficulties.

Easy
-- AI has double cost cards in 3 colors.
-- AI is playing overcosted under powered cards.
-- AI's mana base isn't 100% (mana weaving isn't 100% I mean)
-- Minimum player deck size: 35
-- Both players starting life: 25
-- Both players starting handsize: 8 (7 is still max)
-- First mulligan is free for both sides.

Medium
-- AI has double cost cards in 2 colors.
-- AI plays some overcosted or underpowered cards.
-- AI's mana base is still a little shaky, no duals or fixers.
-- Minimum player deck size: 40
-- Both players starting life: 20
-- Both players starting handsize: 7.
-- Players use Paris Mulligan rules.

Hard
-- AI has Double cost cards in one color mainly.
-- Other colors that have double costed cards are only powerful cards. (Wrath of God, Jokulhaups etc),
-- AI is playing well balanced cards or slightly overpowered undercosted.
-- AI's mana base is totally fixed (I mean working not static) and it usuals duals to round out the curve.
-- Minimum player deck size: 45
-- Human player's starting life: 15. Computer's starting life: 20.
-- Human player's starting handsize: 6.
-- Players use Paris Mulligan Rules

Extreme difficulty
-- AI has a finely tuned deck with lots of powercards.
-- Dual lands are the norm.
-- Expect cards like swords to plowshares, lightning bolt, armageddon, etc.
-- MInimum Player Deck size: 60 (computer is not limited to this but since the computer's deck will be robust they will probably want more cards to make it a little rounder.)
-- Human player's starting life: 15 life loss carries over through the match. Computer's life: 20.
-- Human player's starting hand: 6
-- No mulligan allowed.

Another thing that should be addressed.

Winning cards - Vs Anti

I think Anti should be involved (making the minimum deck size for players: 36 cards on easy mode.) Players should be given the option to repick the anti once because sometimes you get just the one bomb or answer in your deck to start with and it can be a pain finding more if you lose your only "Ace in the Hole".

When winning cards, the random cards should come in pack form. 1 rare, 3 uncommons, 11 commons (because land is readily available and we dont need chase cards or foils ). The sets the packs are made from should differ based on difficulty level and player rank.

Sets should be differentiated based on how good the cards in the set are.

sets
Old School (library, twister, recall, etc) This is the money set. the big prizes
Power Set (wrath, geddon, damnation, the planeswalkers, bolt, plow)
Fancy Set (multicolor dragons, combo cards, good draw cards)
Good Set (land tax, pestilence, crib swap, rebels, assassins, etc)
Basic Set (some creature removal, some artifact/enchantment/land destruction (though not enough to be silly), poor mana fetchers, solid land creatures, few good fliers.)

So we have 5 set teirs and the packs that come from each guarantee a certain power level. Certainly if you crack a kiki jiki and a Ryusei you are going to be incredibly strong in red. So (perhaps) those cards should not be available to start with.

=edit= (in quotes box)

To start with the 75 cards should be 5 packs comprised of 3 basic packs + 2 good. or maybe 4 basic packs and 1 good. Not sure...would have to test this for balance issues. The idea here is to give an exciting pool to start with but something that isn't going to win 100% against the decks right away even with a good player, while still encouraging good deck building skills.

On the other hand the players should start with a slightly larger pool of cards than they do now: 5 packs worth or 75 cards + unlimited lands (why limit it to 40?) This gives the player a bit more freedom to strategize and learn about proper deck building. If you limit their pool to something insane you give them no choices and maybe they end up playing with horrible cards they should not if they are decent players. Yes this does have factor of forcing players to play with cards they hate but this is not the point of the game. The point is to challenge them to grow and have fun at the same time.

Dennis, Chris, Rob, and Rares (anyone else too) please reply to this post with your thoughts.

[Chris H.]

You have some interesting ideas, and I have given a little thought to the difficulty levels. I don't have your experience in playing sealed deck and I am having a hard time winning on the easiest level.

With my limited play testing at this point it appears that all of our opponents are constructed deck. We want the quest to be a challenging experience for the better players, but I think we may need to consider the needs of those whose skill set does not raise to a high level.

We could consider at EASY level, alternating constructed decks with random decks on a 50 - 50 % basis. And with MEDIUM level this could be changed to 2/3 constructed and 1/3 random. The HARD and EXTREME DIFFICULT levels would be constructed deck only.

When I first started my quest I was pleasantly surprised to see that I had both the Mox Jet and the Ancestral Recall. A few minutes later I realized that black and blue were my two weakest colors. I am getting close to finishing the easiest quest and now the five colors are roughly equal.

I am noticing that I have far more creatures than I do have spells. This in turn causes me to purposely create decks that are designed to swarm the computer with an army of creatures.

The Anti could also be be handled differently via the difficulty levels. Low level the anti comes from your non-deck cards and you are playing common vs common ... rare vs rare. At high level the anti comes from your deck and you could face losing a rare while the computer is only offering a common.

The number of cards that we start with could also be determined by the difficulty level.

If any of this look interesting, then you can consider adding to the list that you have started. Good idea, BTW.