Quest Decks Discussions

[Chris H.]

I am starting this message thread to be used as a discussion area for quest decks. I thought it might be helpful if we had one thread for just the decks and a second forum for discussions in reference to these decks.

I have taken a couple of quick peeks at the decks that Gando has posted. I noticed that there appears to be only one deck file attached to Gandos listings. I think that I may have had some luck in attaching more than one file to a single message in the past, but I can not clearly remember the circumstances.

I have not yet had a chance to try the quest mode editor. I am assuming that there may be a few minor bugs but that it functions at a basic level. If we can export the existing deck files, modify them, and then re-import them without too many problems I will be able to participate.

On a related note, I have been play testing with adding the original dual lands to the AI decks that I recently created. I like the way that Dennis has set up the land threading. We should have no problems using the original dual lands in 2 or 3 color decks and have some spells that require 2 or 3 mana of the same color.

Gando, have you had a chance to add additional decks to the questData-1 file? I'm wondering if Rares hard coded the quest game to just use a set number of decks that he included or if the quest game actually counts the number of decks included in the questData-1 file.

[GandoTheBard]

I posted the other two decks listed in the Quest mode thread and didnt want to abuse the uploads thing. Yes I am able to play against all 3 decks I added in independant quest modes so yes. Sadly you have to import them to get them into the questdata file. I looked at it via Notepad and saw that there were alot of unrecognized characters so it is not text editable outside of forge. I guess that is another part of the implementation that needs to be worked on. I'm thinking the quest mode should just read in .deck files at runtime from a DECKS folder and players who want to add decks can just do so by adding the deck file to that folder.

[Chris H.]

I posted the other two decks listed in the Quest mode thread and didnt want to abuse the uploads thing.

I found the deck file for the Silver Surfer mod at:

http://www.slightlymagic.net/forum/download/file.php?id=375

Yes I am able to play against all 3 decks I added in independant quest modes so yes. Sadly you have to import them to get them into the questdata file. I looked at it via Notepad and saw that there were alot of unrecognized characters so it is not text editable outside of forge. I guess that is another part of the implementation that needs to be worked on. I'm thinking the quest mode should just read in .deck files at runtime from a DECKS folder and players who want to add decks can just do so by adding the deck file to that folder.

At one point Rob mentioned that the all-deck and individual .deck files are binary dumps of the data.

I had a thought. Suppose that we imported a new deck with the name "Gandos Goblins". If we then played a quest game would we see this deck name on one of the three buttons that we press when we chose an opponent.

[GandoTheBard]

Yes. It will appear randomly. Assuming you use the AI menu.

[Chris H.]

Assuming you use the AI menu.

I see that the AI Menu has an option to View All Decks.

I also see an AI Menu option for Rename. Rares had mentioned that if we could rename the quest decks. We might be able to come up with a few fantasy-theme names for some of the decks.

[Chris H.]

I took a look at your AIQuest-BattleofWits252.deck deck and assigned it to both the computer and myself. The deck is a lot of fun. You did a good job.

I noticed that you included several of the comes into play lands and I did not see a single freeze with the computer stating that it was thinking.

Dennis thought that this bug may have been caused by something associated with the comes into play lands. I am pleasantly puzzled.

It looks like Rares included 8 decks, and you have modded 2 and added a ninth deck. I will take a look at your other two decks over the next several days. I still am trying to find time to finish my first quest.

[GandoTheBard]

Well Im glad you liked it. Yeah I haven't noticed a crash yet involving lands. I have had mysterious hangs but nothing I could pinpoint to land.

I am fairly good at tweaking existing decks but I admit Ive been abit lazy with the rest since I don't really want to have to play against my decks lol. They are too mean. Particularly the Dragons deck.

[Chris H.]

Well Im glad you liked it. Yeah I haven't noticed a crash yet involving lands. I have had mysterious hangs but nothing I could pinpoint to land.

Are these hangs displaying the computer is thinking statement or are these hangs a substantial slow down with the computer taking far too much time in processing.

I am fairly good at tweaking existing decks but I admit Ive been abit lazy with the rest since I don't really want to have to play against my decks lol. They are too mean. Particularly the Dragons deck.

In another message thread one of our team members mentioned that the decks became easier to beat as his card pool increased. On the blog someone mentioned that the decks should become harder as the quest progresses.

I have given this a little thought. It may be difficult to change the data files for the quest decks to include whether or not the deck is:

easy deck - or - moderate deck - or - hard deck.

Can the program be changed to consider the number of cards in the quest deck? Lets say easy decks for early game quests, moderate decks for middle game quests and hard decks for later game quests.

easy deck card size = 40 - 49 cards
moderate deck card size = 50 - 59 cards
hard deck card size = 60 or more cards

[GandoTheBard]

Are these hangs displaying the computer is thinking statement or are these hangs a substantial slow down with the computer taking far too much time in processing.

Neither. This is I clicked ok and it went blue then went grey and nothing happened type of Hang which indicates a fatal error imho.

[GandoTheBard]

er quest decks that are 40 cards or less are not necessarily easier or harder. Though of course card drawing decks need more cards by default to take full advantage. I think it is programmatically unwise to do it by deck size. More than likely you need a separate mechanism, maybe even a small db or xml file that indicates toughness of deck and all that jazz. Jazz being rewards for beating it etc.

[Chris H.]

I'm thinking that the program might be able to sort the decks by the number of cards included. And if we adjust these decks not just by the card count but also by the strength of the cards that are added.


"Tarzan" = 40 card easy deck:

Include some of the smaller ape cards like Barbary Apes, some lions/jungle creatures and Tarzan the Silverback Ape. Add in Giant Growth and spells that pump one creature not all creatures.


"King Kong" = 50 card medium deck:

Similar to above deck, but we include Ancient Silverback, Lightning Bolt to knock down those by-planes circling above, pump spells that affect all creatures.

[Mr.Chaos]

About decks getting more difficult later on in the quest:
1 - we need more decks.
2 - we need to determine how tough the decks are.
3 - make it so the tougher decks become available as enemies later in the quest.
Like so:
deck A, B and C = available as enemy from 0 wins.
deck D, E = available as enemy from 1 win.
deck F, G = available as enemy from 2 wins, and so on.
Then actual deck size does not matter, just what cards are in there.
But as I said, this means we need more decks than the 8 currently available.
Just my 2 cents.

[GandoTheBard]

There should be more than 8 available if you add my 3.

[DennisBergkamp]

They are too mean. Particularly the Dragons deck.

I haven't played against it yet, but if it's that strong we should maybe only have it appear somewhere late in the quest?
By the way, I just implemented Covetous Dragon, I wonder if it would fit in the dragons deck.

[mtgrares]

Dividing up the decks by wins (or the number of cards that you have) sounds good. We probably need to divide up the decks into broad categories: like easy, medium, hard. And on Easy mode the player will play against 5 easy decks, 3 medium, and 2 hard. And on Medium the player will play against 5 easy decks, 10 medium, and 5 hard.

The idea of having the choice of 3 random opponents is from the Yu-Gi-Oh videogame for Gameboy Advance. Building your deck using only 6 buttons is very hard, lol. I'm grateful that I can use a mouse when deck building.