Kieran: Taken deck request (2014)

[jacque]

When you flip it, it becomes legendary and changes its name. You can add a supertype in DotP, but you can't change names. You could end up having some legendary Kitsune Mystics and some non-legendary ones, and I'm not sure about what would happen then.

That I didn't notice... hmmm *tinker hat on*

What about your Transform ability?

[thefiremind]

What about your Transform ability?

viewtopic.php?f=109&t=11726&p=133871#p133871

[jacque]

http://www.slightlymagic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=11726&p=133871#p133871

Sigh... the name >.<

[becauseafrica]

kindly request for something like this. tnx

| Open

2 Bogbrew Witch
4 Festering Newt
4 Tenacious Dead
4 Altars Reap
4 Angelic Accord
4 Bubbling Cauldron
4 Elixir of Immortality
4 Orzhov Charm
2 Sanguine Bond
2 Trading Post
2 Immortal Servitude
10 Plains
14 Swamp

[Pheonix56]

So um... Kitsune Mystic/Autumn-Tail Kitsune Sage can be coded if the name remains the same? Sounds okay enough to me. *_*

Excuse me if I am understanding this wrong. Thanks again for going through all this trouble.

[RiiakShiNal]

The "Legendary" rules cause problems with flip cards purely because we can't change the card's name and all flip cards have the Legendary super-type on at least one of it's sides (some have it on both sides, but with different card names).

In real magic you can have up to 4 Kitsune Mystic cards in play (more with Clone and other card copiers), but only 1 Autumn-Tail Kitsune Sage (due to the Legendary rule).

In DotP we can have up to 4 Kitsune Mystic cards in play (more with Clone and other card copiers), but when the card is supposed to be flipped we have to make a choice:

1. Either we create a token which represents the flipped card, this can correctly handle the Legendary rule along with the new name for the card, but fails to work properly when combined with things like Clone and other card copiers.
2. We "change state" on the card which works for Clone and other card copiers, but doesn't let us change the card's name. Then for the Legendary bit, we have some issues as we don't know how the game will handle a card with Legendary and one without with the same card name so we have basically three options for this:
   1. We add the Legendary super-type like we are supposed to and hope the game doesn't completely barf and die. If it doesn't die then I see these possibilities:
      1. The Legendary rule will cause you to sacrifice one or more of the other Kitsune Mystics you have in play due to one of them becoming Legendary. This is obviously a problem as the others are not Legendary and should not be removed.
      2. The Legendary rule will cause you to sacrifice the Kitsune Mystic that just became Legendary because it is the only Kitsune Mystic with the Legendary super-type. This is obviously a problem because we essentially would not be able to flip cards if there are more than 1 unflipped card of that name in play.
      3. The cards will co-exist as long as two or more don't have the Legendary super-type. This is the possibility we hope would occur as it would be the most correct.
   2. We don't add the Legendary super-type and we manage the "Legendary" rules manually through card code. This has the problem of causing problems with cards like Empress Galina, Day of Destiny, and Arena of the Ancients (not an exhaustive list).
   3. We completely ignore adding or managing Legendary super-type or rules. This is wrong because then you could have multiple "flipped" Kitsune Mystic cards which you should not be able to do.

If it turns out that option 2.1 possibility 3 happens then flip cards become a real possibility (minus name change), but I don't find that very likely. The Transform mechanic uses option 1 because Clone and copy effects don't pose a problem with Transform cards. Level-up cards basically use option 2.3 as they don't normally change names and don't have to worry about the Legendary rule issues.

[thefiremind]

Well, if anybody is interested into having a starting point, here's a Kitsune Mystic that totally ignores everything about becoming legendary. It's like having a monstrosity that starts from a triggered ability rather than an activated ability.

Tweaked Kitsune Mystic (untested) | Open

Code: Select all

<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?>
<CARD_V2 ExportVersion="1">
  <FILENAME text="KITSUNE_MYSTIC_991078695" />
  <CARDNAME text="KITSUNE_MYSTIC" />
  <TITLE>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="en-US"><![CDATA[Kitsune Mystic]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="fr-FR"><![CDATA[Mystique kitsune]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="es-ES"><![CDATA[Místico kitsune]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="de-DE"><![CDATA[Kitsune-Mystiker]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="it-IT"><![CDATA[Mistico Kitsune]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="jp-JA"><![CDATA[狐の神秘家]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="ko-KR"><![CDATA[Kitsune Mystic]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="ru-RU"><![CDATA[Kitsune Mystic]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="pt-BR"><![CDATA[Místico Kitsune]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
  </TITLE>
  <MULTIVERSEID value="991078695" />
  <ARTID value="991078695" />
  <ARTIST name="Jim Murray" />
  <CASTING_COST cost="{3}{W}" />
  <TYPE metaname="Creature" />
  <SUB_TYPE metaname="Fox" />
  <SUB_TYPE metaname="Wizard" />
  <EXPANSION value="CHK" />
  <RARITY metaname="R" />
  <POWER value="2" />
  <TOUGHNESS value="3" />
  <TRIGGERED_ABILITY linked_ability_group="1">
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="en-US"><![CDATA[At the beginning of the end step, if Kitsune Mystic is enchanted by two or more Auras, it gets +2/+2 and gains “{1}: Attach target Aura attached to a creature to another creature.”]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="fr-FR"><![CDATA[Au début de l’étape de fin, si le Mystique kitsune est enchanté par au moins deux auras, il gagne +2/+2 et acquiert « {1} : Attachez une aura ciblé enchantant une créature à une autre créature. »]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="es-ES"><![CDATA[Al comienzo del paso final, si el Místico kitsune está encantado por dos o más auras, obtiene +2/+2 y gana “Anexa a otra criatura el aura objetivo que esté encantando a una criatura”.]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="de-DE"><![CDATA[Falls der Kitsune-Mystiker zu Beginn des Endsegments von zwei oder mehr Auren verzaubert ist, erhält sie +2/+2 und „{1}: Lege eine Aura deiner Wahl, die eine Kreatur verzaubert, an eine andere Kreatur“.]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="it-IT"><![CDATA[All’inizio della sottofase finale, se il Mistico Kitsune è incantato da due o più Aura, prende +2/+2 e guadagna “{1}: Assegna l’Aura bersaglio assegnata a una creatura ad un’altra creatura”.]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="jp-JA"><![CDATA[あなたのターンの終了時に、狐の神秘家が２つ以上のエンチャントにエンチャントされている場合、＋２/＋２の修整を受けるとともに「{1}：クリーチャーをエンチャントしているエンチャント１つを対象とし、それを別なクリーチャーに移動する。」の能力を持つ。]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="ko-KR"><![CDATA[At the beginning of the end step, if Kitsune Mystic is enchanted by two or more Auras, it gets +2/+2 and gains “{1}: Attach target Aura attached to a creature to another creature.”]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="ru-RU"><![CDATA[At the beginning of the end step, if Kitsune Mystic is enchanted by two or more Auras, it gets +2/+2 and gains “{1}: Attach target Aura attached to a creature to another creature.”]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="pt-BR"><![CDATA[No início da etapa final, se Místico Kitsune estiver encantado por dois ou mais Auras, ele recebe +2/+2 e ganha “{1}: Anexe a Aura alvo que estiver encantando uma criatura à uma outra criatura.”]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <TRIGGER value="BEGINNING_OF_STEP">
    return MTG():GetStep() == STEP_END_OF_TURN and LinkedDC():Get_Int(0) ~= 1
    </TRIGGER>
    <INTERVENING_IF>
    return EffectSource() ~= nil and EffectSource():CountAttachedAuras() &gt; 1
    </INTERVENING_IF>
    <RESOLUTION_TIME_ACTION>
    LinkedDC():Set_Int(0, 1)
    </RESOLUTION_TIME_ACTION>
    <CONTINUOUS_ACTION layer="7C">
    if EffectSource() ~= nil then
       local characteristics = EffectSource():GetCurrentCharacteristics()
       characteristics:Power_Add(2)
       characteristics:Toughness_Add(2)
    end
    </CONTINUOUS_ACTION>
    <CONTINUOUS_ACTION layer="6">
    if EffectSource() ~= nil then
       EffectSource():GetCurrentCharacteristics():GrantAbility(1)
    end
    </CONTINUOUS_ACTION>
    <DURATION>
    return EffectSource() == nil
    </DURATION>
    <AUTO_SKIP no_effect_source="1" />
  </TRIGGERED_ABILITY>
  <ACTIVATED_ABILITY resource_id="1">
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="en-US"><![CDATA[{1}: Attach target Aura attached to a creature to another creature.]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="fr-FR"><![CDATA[{1} : Attachez une aura ciblé enchantant une créature à une autre créature.]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="es-ES"><![CDATA[{1}: Anexa a otra criatura el aura objetivo que esté encantando a una criatura.]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="de-DE"><![CDATA[{1}: Lege eine Aura deiner Wahl, die eine Kreatur verzaubert, an eine andere Kreatur.]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="it-IT"><![CDATA[{1}: Assegna l’Aura bersaglio assegnata a una creatura ad un’altra creatura.]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="jp-JA"><![CDATA[{1}：クリーチャーをエンチャントしているエンチャント１つを対象とし、それを別なクリーチャーに移動する。]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="ko-KR"><![CDATA[{1}: Attach target Aura attached to a creature to another creature.]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="ru-RU"><![CDATA[{1}: Attach target Aura attached to a creature to another creature.]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <LOCALISED_TEXT LanguageCode="pt-BR"><![CDATA[{1}: Anexe a Aura alvo que estiver encantando uma criatura à uma outra criatura.]]></LOCALISED_TEXT>
    <COST mana_cost="{1}" type="Mana" />
    <TARGET tag="CARD_QUERY_CHOOSE_AURA" definition="0" compartment="0" count="1" />
    <TARGET_DEFINITION id="0">
    local filter = ClearFilter()
    filter:Add(FE_SUBTYPE, OP_IS, ENCHANTMENT_TYPE_AURA)
    filter:Add( FE_LUA_CONDITION, 1, EffectController(), EffectDC() )
    </TARGET_DEFINITION>
    <FILTER_CONDITION id="1">
    local parent = FilteredCard() and FilteredCard():GetParent()
    return parent ~= nil and parent:GetCardType():Test(CARD_TYPE_CREATURE)
    </FILTER_CONDITION>
    <RESOLUTION_TIME_ACTION>
    local target_aura = EffectDC():Get_Targets(0):Get_CardPtr(0)
    if target_aura ~= nil then
       local filter = ClearFilter()
       filter:Add(FE_TYPE, OP_IS, CARD_TYPE_CREATURE)
   filter:Add( FE_CARD_INSTANCE, OP_NOT, target_aura:GetParent() )
       EffectController():ChooseItem( "CARD_QUERY_CHOOSE_CREATURE_TO_ENCHANT", EffectDC():Make_Targets(1) )
    end
    </RESOLUTION_TIME_ACTION>
    <RESOLUTION_TIME_ACTION>
    local target_aura = EffectDC():Get_Targets(0):Get_CardPtr(0)
    if target_aura ~= nil then
       local creature = EffectDC():Get_Targets(1):Get_CardPtr(0)
       if creature ~= nil and target_aura:CanAttachTo(creature) then
          target_aura:Attach(creature)
       end
    end
    </RESOLUTION_TIME_ACTION>
  </ACTIVATED_ABILITY>
  <SFX text="COMBAT_WHITE_MAGIC_LARGE_ATTACK" power_boundary_min="4" power_boundary_max="-1" />
  <SFX text="COMBAT_WHITE_MAGIC_SMALL_ATTACK" power_boundary_min="1" power_boundary_max="3" />
  <AI_BASE_SCORE score="450" zone="ZONE_BATTLEFIELD" />
</CARD_V2>

I tried to adapt the text so that it matches with what the card really does, but I didn't mention that the trigger works only once, mainly because I didn't have any other card to copy such a statement from, and I could write it by myself only in English and Italian.

[Pheonix56]

In real magic you can have up to 4 Kitsune Mystic cards in play (more with Clone and other card copiers), but only 1 Autumn-Tail Kitsune Sage (due to the Legendary rule).

In DotP we can have up to 4 Kitsune Mystic cards in play (more with Clone and other card copiers), but when the card is supposed to be flipped we have to make a choice:
[list=1]
[*]Either we create a token which represents the flipped card, this can correctly handle the Legendary rule along with the new name for the card, but fails to work properly when combined with things like Clone and other card copiers.

A (probably silly) question since I am really feeling curious and excited - how would this formula work with flip cards that become enchantments after flipping and can't be effected by Clone anyway? Or is it impossible to create a token that would count as an enchantment?

[RiiakShiNal]

It is still possible to create a token that counts as an enchantment. For example Erayo, Soratami Ascendant "flips" to become Erayo's Essence which is then affected by Memnarch to become an Artifact, then Karn's Touch is cast on it. It is now a creature (as well as an enchantment) and can be targeted by Clone and other copiers. There might be something that copies enchantments or simply copies tokens (in which case since Erayo's Essence would be considered a token it could be copied). Then of course you have Doubling Season which could very well pose a problem with legendary tokens entering the battlefield regardless of their types. All of these examples relate back to the the problem that the "flipped" card would be copied as "flipped" which is wrong, it should be copied as "unflipped" (the original card).

Technically, any permanent through clever use of other card abilities can be targeted by Clone and other card copiers.

Tokens in and of themselves can have a number of issues depending on what they are being used for.

[drleg3nd]

hey guys just wanna go threw a mill-exile deck with everyone and tell me what ya think,any suggestions..wil you play it/against it..

Milled to Exile | Open

Code: Select all

2X OMENSPEAKER
4X NIGHTVEIL SPECTER
4X CONSUMING ABERRATION
2X MIRKO VOSK, MIND DRINKER

4X THOUGHTSEIZE
2X DOOM BLADE
3X MIND GRIND
2X HERO'S DOWNFALL
2X MIND ROT
3X PILFERED PLANS
3X PSYCHIC STRIKE
1X PSYCHIC SPIRAL

2X JACE, MEMORY ADEPT
3X ASHIOK, NIGHTWARE WEAVER

7X ISLAND
6X SWAMPS
4X TEMPLE OF DECEIT
4X WATERY GRAVE
2X NYKTHOS, SHRINE TO NYX


[Kieran]

@becauseafrica, Pheonix56, and drleg3nd: I'll look through the cards I have and post your missing cards on the front page when I have time.

Edit -

@becauseafrica: I cards I don't have for your list are
Angelic Accord
Tenacious Dead
Trading Post

@drleg3nd: The cards I don't have on your list are
Mind Grind
Pilfered Plans
Psychic Spiral

@Pheonix56: I'll go over your list shortly.

[drleg3nd]

@becauseafrica, Pheonix56, and drleg3nd: I'll look through the cards I have and post your missing cards on the front page when I have time.

Edit -

@becauseafrica: I cards I don't have for your list are
Angelic Accord
Tenacious Dead
Trading Post

@drleg3nd: The cards I don't have on your list are
Mind Grind
Pilfered Plans
Psychic Spiral.

@Pheonix56: I'll go over your list shortly.

imma look into the other cards..see if i can make'em

[Kieran]

Thanks for the cards! That's a punishing deck you listed. Lol! I wonder if it's going to generate as much rage quit as the Agent of the Fates + Agoraphobia combo that's present in my pending sacrifice deck?

[Pheonix56]

@Keiran - Take your time mate, no need to rush.

It is still possible to create a token that counts as an enchantment. For example Erayo, Soratami Ascendant "flips" to become Erayo's Essence which is then affected by Memnarch to become an Artifact, then Karn's Touch is cast on it. It is now a creature (as well as an enchantment) and can be targeted by Clone and other copiers. There might be something that copies enchantments or simply copies tokens (in which case since Erayo's Essence would be considered a token it could be copied). Then of course you have Doubling Season which could very well pose a problem with legendary tokens entering the battlefield regardless of their types. All of these examples relate back to the the problem that the "flipped" card would be copied as "flipped" which is wrong, it should be copied as "unflipped" (the original card).

Technically, any permanent through clever use of other card abilities can be targeted by Clone and other card copiers.

Tokens in and of themselves can have a number of issues depending on what they are being used for.

So guess the problem doesn't go away completely. Again these erroneous situations seem pretty situational and sorta harmful for the user of the card thus not quite exploitable. Making Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant this way could give a replacement for Kitsune Mystic.

Oh I dunno, right now I am feeling like something is better than nothing. Could someone please give some of these theories a try? Man I really should make some time to learn some coding...

[o0JuZaM0o]

Hi,

Testing the decks I see a few minor bugs.

In the deck "Rakdos discard pit", there is a probem with "Dreadbore", it can`t target creatures.

And when you are playing againts the deck "Rise of the blood barons" the name of the opponent is "New Personalty"