DuelDecks in duel and challenge formats

[Fizanko]

Hello,

For those interested by the DuelDecks

I made them into Forge dck files

There are 2 versions :
- the duel format for playing with assigning a deck to the AI and yourself in the Constructed game mode

- the challenge format, inspired by the Sorin vs Tibalt fun challenge from the quest Main World .
Note that the id and quest number in each challenge file is set chronologically (id1/quest1 and id2/quest2 are GoblinsvsElves/ElvesvsGoblins, id3/quest3 and id4/quest4 are JacevsChandra/ChandravsJace, etc...)
It's something to keep in mind if you want to add those challenge to your existing world challenges, as in the case there are already challenges there, you'll have to adjust those id/quest number accordingly.

I provided images 100x100 pixels in jpg to serve as player icon for each duel packs for the challenge versions, put them into your Cache\pics\icons\to benefit from them


IMPORTANT NOTE 1 :
the duel decks (both in duel or challenge format) Knigths vs Dragons feature in the Knigths deck a card named Harm's Way
At the time i write this, Harm's Way is one of the few cards not yet supported by Forge, so either remove the deck or edit it to change Harm's Way into something supported

IMPORTANT NOTE 2 :
I made the challenge decks following guidance from the existing Forge Sorin vs Tibalt challenge, but if there's a typo here or there, i can't say, i have not been able to play them on my quest yet. But if i find problems, i'll try to fix them if i can

IMPORTANT NOTE 3 :
I uploade "Fixed" version of the challenges, so they actually work as intended.
You need to drop all the .dck files into :
...\YourForgeDirectory\res\quest\challenges\

(optional, if you want the challenges having an image) Drop all the .jpg images into the icons folder located into your user/appdate Forge directory :
...\Cache\pics\icons\

[serrasmurf]

Ho Fizanko,
Thanks for this.
You mentioned Harm's Way as a card not in Forge. Additionally there are many cards in the decks that are available in Forge but the AI can't handle properly (mostly sacrifice outlets, x-spells).
Duel decks that are to be added to the official Forge release should not contain such cards. (of course everybody is free to do whatever they want with their own decks )

For all the duel decks I checked whether Forge indicates whether these might pose a problem for the AI (indicated with "AI" or "?" in the deck editor). I playtested the decks a little to test this. Sometimes the AI can't play a card optimally but still decently, so they're fine to be included in the decks. I ended up with the following number of cards the AI can't handle per duel deck.

Elves vs. Goblins - Elves 3
Elves vs. Goblins - Goblins 3
Jace vs. Chandra - Jace 5
Jace vs. Chandra - Chandra 2
Divine vs. Demonic - Divine 1
Divine vs. Demonic - Demonic 12
Garruk vs. Liliana - Garruk 4
Garruk vs. Liliana - Liliana 2
Phyrexia vs. The Coalition - Phyrexia 17
Phyrexia vs. The Coalition - The Coalition 7
Elspeth vs. Tezzeret - Elspeth 6
Elspeth vs. Tezzeret - Tezzeret 7
Knights vs. Dragons - Knights 1
Knights vs. Dragons - Dragons 2
Ajani vs. Nicol Bolas - Ajani 5
Ajani vs. Nicol Bolas - Nicol Bolas 3
Venser vs. Koth - Venser 10
Venser vs. Koth - Koth 3
Izzet vs. Golgari - Izzet 12
Izzet vs. Golgari - Golgari 7
Sorin vs. Tibalt - Sorin 0
Sorin vs. Tibalt - Tibalt 4
Heroes vs. Monsters - Heroes 2
Heroes vs. Monsters - Monsters 4
Jace vs. Vraska - Jace 4
Jace vs. Vraska - Vraska 3

Personally I think that:
decks with 6+ problem cards are not fit for Forge yet
cards with 5- cards are OK, but need replacements
most elegant is to replace the problem cards with basic lands and/or up the numbers of cards in the deck with a similar casting cost

[Fizanko]

Yes, i agree that if the AI have trouble understanding how to exactly play some of the smart cards, it's going to lower the challenge difficulty to the player a lot.

Then let's keep in mind it's possible to play Forge in Constructed game mode with 2 (or mor)e human players in hotseat so we should keep a version of the duel decks as they are

Because it's obvious for humans playing those duels decks isn't a problem as they can obviously handle the smart play of some of the AI problematic cards (except Harm's Way because the card is not yet coded in Forge) , so editing those duel decks would change their natures and it wouldn't be the same.

I think the best solution would be to :

1st- let the duel decks as they are, as in the future Forge AI may eventually be able to play all the cards, and right now humans players can play with them in hotseat multiplayer

2nd- make edited versions of those decks in which the current AI problematic cards are replaced by other cards the AI can actually play smartly. It's especially important for the challenge versions that is not human "multiplayable" and is human vs AI-only.

Now that's my biggest problem, as i'm far from a MtG expert to easily find replacement cards that balance with each other.
And replacing cards that the AI do not play well with lands sounds to me limiting some of those decks strength a lot, so the best way would be to replace them with cards that could deliver some similar ability or advantage... while having the AI knowing how to play them well, that sounds very hard.

I will have to give some playtest to see if i can find ability card the AI can play well, but without overpowering a deck in comparison to its opposite

I've been testing Sorin vs Tibalt to see if 4 problematic cards were too much, but as he managed to beat me in one of the 2 duels i just played, i guess it can do with it.

Now the Phyrexia will be a bigger problem, as 17 cards is a lot, and all of them have smart play required to use the abilities when needed, i think this one is mostly hopeless (well hopeless in term of understanding the cards perfectly because in reality the AI can field on turn 3 Phyrexian Negator and attach Lightning Greaves and annhilate you in few turns as he did on one of my playtest as he was tapping continuously my blockers with Puppet Strings ) and will certainly need a complete change to adapt it to the AI

[Fizanko]

Finally, took me 20 wins on the Theros world to finally be able to test my challenges, but finally i got there and their display work !


But really annoying, the deck for you do not work, it simply ignore the line HumanDeck=....

Because i'm still given my own deck instead of the opposite challenge deck.

The problem is that by comparing how i setup the files in comparison to the Tibalt vs Sorin from Main World challenge, i don't see any difference in how the file is setup, my challenge should work but obviously not.

I'm clueless at what is the problem then ? Anyone has an idea ?

[Fizanko]

I changed all the id and quest numbers on every challenge .dck files so they can't be the same with the id and quest numbers of the challenge on the other worlds, and still after winning enough again, a challenge appears, correct picture and all.

... but still the HumanDeck=.... is completely ignored and i end with my quest deck instead (while the AI play with the challenge deck)

I start to wonder if this kind of HumanDeck=.... is only supported by the main World (that does not have a sub-folder in a World directory) and simply do not work on another world (that is defined in another sub folder inside of a World directory) or if it's just a bug.

To test i decided to remove all the "Main World" challenge and replace them by my challenges , 7 wins to go and i'll be able to test and see if it works

[Fizanko]

Finally got my 7 wins in the Main World (those main world medium decks aren't balanced really with the Theros one at all ).

And i can say now the duel decks challenge works.
So it looks like i was right, unless there's something i don't know, only works if the challenge is set in the Main world, it will not work if the challenge is set in one of the alternate world

[Fizanko]

Fiarsol confirmed that indeed the dueldeck-based challenges can only work in "Main World" :
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=14680&p=154630#p154629

code snippet | Open

String humanDeck = sectionQuest.get("HumanDeck", null);
if (humanDeck != null) {
File humanFile = new File(ForgeConstants.DEFAULT_CHALLENGES_DIR, humanDeck); // Won't work in other worlds!
qc.setHumanDeck(DeckSerializer.fromFile(humanFile));
}

I'll edit the id and quest number then upload new version of the challenge decks, so you can just drop them into :
...res\quest\challenges\
Without any possible id and quest numbering conflict with the existing main world challenges

[Fizanko]

Fixed version of the challenges for use into the "Main World" is now available, in the 1st post of this thread.

Drop all the .dck files into :
...\YourForgeDirectory\res\quest\challenges\

(optional, if you want the challenges having an image) Drop all the .jpg images into the icons folder located into your user/appdate Forge directory :
...\Cache\pics\icons\

[Fizanko]

It's not named DuelDeck but it sure looks like one and is built to play like one, Fate vs Fury, the M15 "clash pack" :
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/ar ... 2014-07-07

Attached to this posts are the 2 decks of Fate vs Fury so you can play in Constructed mode with them.

[Fizanko]

Added to the 1st post the Speed vs Cunning duel deck.
You can play it if you download the latest Forge snapshot release :
http://www.krazyweb.net/forge/

or just wait for the next Forge "official" release ( 1.5.28 ) that will allow to play it.

As a bonus, here's a LQ version of DDN , that contains all the pictures for the Speed vs Cunning decks , they come from mtgimages , i renamed those that needed renaming and resaved them into jpg so Forge will load them without problem :
http://www.mediafire.com/download/o4v0d ... /DDNlq.rar

(note : don't right click -> save as, that's not a direct link, it lead to mediafire download page)

[Fizanko]

As the cards are now supported in current version of Forge (at least on the snapshot i'm using), i added to the 1st post the Fate Reforged "Clash Pack" named "Power vs Profit".
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Fate_ ... Clash_pack

Included in it is the "combined" deck "Power and Profit" that you can obtain from the 2 decks according to WotC

[Fizanko]

I completely forgot about it, i attached to the 1st post the latest Elspeth vs Kiora duel deck .

For those interested, here's a LQ version of the CCGH HQ release ( 318x450 ) of the DDO pictures if you don't have them currently, so you can see the cards picture for that duel deck

[Fizanko]

Considering the cards are now supported in current version of Forge, i added to the 1st post the Origins clash pack named "Armed vs Dangerous".
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Magic ... Clash_pack

Included in it is the "combined" deck "Armed and Dangerous" that you can obtain from the 2 decks according to WotC

note : without counting the lands, Dangerous does not contain a single Origins card, that's normal as it is how WotC designed (but odd considering it's an -Origins- clash pack)

[Fizanko]

While the duel deck
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Duel_ ... s._Eldrazi

is not supported yet by default in Forge 1.5.46 , if you get add the edition file "Duel Decks Zendikar vs Eldrazi.txt" (thanks to Xitax and Agetian) i attach on that post and put it in your Forge\res\edition\ directory it will be supported .

(or wait for 1.5.47 or get a newer build when available, the edition set is already included)

Added the ZendikarvsEldrazi.zip in the opening post of this thread, the 2 dck files are in it.

In case the images aren't yet available for Forge, you can find them thanks to charlequin's post :
viewtopic.php?f=15&p=186747#p186747

As the list of attached file start to be long, maybe i'll regroup all the duel decks file into a single zip ?