Trying to fix Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

[sweetLu]

I would think that interaction would be correct. Counters are not copyable and are only applied when the planeswalker is already on the battlefield. Since Vensuvan Shapeshifter is already on the battlefield it will not get any Loyalty counters and die.

If you found a way to have the copy of the dragon token result in a planeswalker card that is great. This should mean flip cards like Kitsune Mystic // Autumn-Tail, Kitsune Sage would be possible.

[NeoAnderson]

I would think that interaction would be correct. Counters are not copyable and are only applied when the planeswalker is already on the battlefield. Since Vensuvan Shapeshifter is already on the battlefield it will not get any Loyalty counters and die.

I know but following the card rules the new copy must have 4 counters also if it is already onto battlefield. Anyway my last code allow this.

If you found a way to have the copy of the dragon token result in a planeswalker card that is great. This should mean flip cards like Kitsune Mystic // Autumn-Tail, Kitsune Sage would be possible.

I haven't look to the rules of that kind of cards, so i don't know exactly what are the Flip cards rules, anyway i think it can be done following some different way.

[sweetLu]

If you are referring to the additional rules text on gatherer it pertains to a "permanent entering the battlefield as a copy of Sarkhan", not all copy effects.

[thefiremind]

I know but following the card rules the new copy must have 4 counters also if it is already onto battlefield.

As sweetLu just said, the rule you quoted doesn't say that.

If a permanent enters the battlefield as a copy of Sarkhan after his first ability has resolved, the copy will be a Sarkhan planeswalker. It will enter the battlefield with four loyalty counters

If a permanent transforms into Sarkhan after having entered the battlefield, giving it four loyalty counters out of nowhere wouldn't make sense.

(Not that this rule makes totally sense to me anyway, but at least I can justify it to myself as a consequence of the implicit Planeswalker rules that place loyalty counters on them when they enter the battlefield. )

I haven't look to the rules of that kind of cards, so i don't know exactly what are the Flip cards rules, anyway i think it can be done following some different way.

The main problem with approximating flip cards was exactly that one: when you copy a flip card, the copy should always be not flipped.

[NeoAnderson]

I know but following the card rules the new copy must have 4 counters also if it is already onto battlefield.

As sweetLu just said, the rule you quoted doesn't say that.

If a permanent enters the battlefield as a copy of Sarkhan after his first ability has resolved, the copy will be a Sarkhan planeswalker. It will enter the battlefield with four loyalty counters

If a permanent transforms into Sarkhan after having entered the battlefield, giving it four loyalty counters out of nowhere wouldn't make sense.

(Not that this rule makes totally sense to me anyway, but at least I can justify it to myself as a consequence of the implicit Planeswalker rules that place loyalty counters on them when they enter the battlefield. )

I haven't look to the rules of that kind of cards, so i don't know exactly what are the Flip cards rules, anyway i think it can be done following some different way.

The main problem with approximating flip cards was exactly that one: when you copy a flip card, the copy should always be not flipped.

About Sarkhan rules so i would understand what should happen to a card like Vesuvan Shapeshifter (already onto battlefield) that copy the Dragon Sarkhan? It has to die because of 0 Loyalty counters?? It should receive the 4 counters??

About flip card i will look to them later to better read the official rules, just to understand if they can be considered like Morph cards..

[NeoAnderson]

If you found a way to have the copy of the dragon token result in a planeswalker card that is great. This should mean flip cards like Kitsune Mystic // Autumn-Tail, Kitsune Sage would be possible.

As i said with a little bit of time and patience everything can be made. Try to take a look to this topic! Flip Cards Topic