Another Random MTG Project

[mtgrares]

I don't know anything about this project but I was just randomly search Google's Projects and most of the Magic projects haven't even been started, they don't have any files to release but I did find this one project that has something working. It requires .Net 2.0 and only runs on Windows. Supposedly it has AI but it seems to only have around 100 cards. It does include a "card maker" application though.

This is from their readme file, "Please note that the card images included in this release have been downscaled to prevent a copyright violation." I don't think that really works, ha.

MTG-Project

[MageKing17]

The AI makes some silly mistakes.

The current turn is #5.
Molimo draws a card (Canopy Spider).
My health is: 17
Molimo plays Forest.
Molimo taps a Forest for a GREEN mana.
Molimo taps a Forest for a GREEN mana.
Molimo taps a Forest for a GREEN mana.
Molimo plays Canopy Spider.
Molimo took 1 damage from mana burn.

In addition, by putting the lands off to the side (and representing them as numbers to boot) I can't imagine how enchant lands (or fortifications) could be implemented. The engine doesn't seem very scalable to me.

[GandoTheBard]

Wacky. The example you posted looks like Shandalar ...which randomly burned itself occasionally for no apparent reason. .net seems a funny requirement. What is it written in?

[MageKing17]

This application was developed with Visual C# 2008 and uses the .NET 2.0 libraries.

Maybe it and the Shandalar AI have an error in common?

[GandoTheBard]

This application was developed with Visual C# 2008 and uses the .NET 2.0 libraries.

Maybe it and the Shandalar AI have an error in common?

C#! ? Why not just use C++? I don't understand why anyone would use C# for non-web applications.

[MageKing17]

Don't ask me, I didn't write it.

[Incantus]

C#! ? Why not just use C++? I don't understand why anyone would use C# for non-web applications.

Ha, that's like asking why anyone would use python for anything except non-scripting applications )

Hint - C# is way better suited to making a game like MtG instead C++ (at least the parts it copies from dynamic languages).

[GandoTheBard]

C#! ? Why not just use C++? I don't understand why anyone would use C# for non-web applications.

Ha, that's like asking why anyone would use python for anything except non-scripting applications

Hint - C# is way better suited to making a game like MtG instead C++ (at least the parts it copies from dynamic languages).

Hinting is less obvious and more sarcastic (and perhaps condescending) than actually saying what you mean (Though maybe you felt 'technobabble' would be ill-suited as a response so...*shrug*) But be that as it may, I am not convinced C# is better suited. C++ has a wide variety of libraries created over a period of several decades to draw upon (which I guess would make it harder to use if you don't know the libraries you need) whereas C# seems to me to be best suited for Web Apps (which is where I have seen it used mostly, and which is why I mentioned that.) I know that C++ projects can port to other platforms with a little work (cf: Angband and variants), not sure C# can at all.

[Rob Cashwalker]

No, I'll agree with Incantus. C# is an impressive language, with proper object inheritance and tight type control. It takes the best of Java, VB and C++ plus some others. Then it throws it all in the garbage with a bloated runtime engine and of course being stuck in the Windows platform.

[MageKing17]

Hinting is less obvious and more sarcastic (and perhaps condescending) than actually saying what you mean (Though maybe you felt 'technobabble' would be ill-suited as a response so...*shrug*)

Wow, somebody likes taking offense about nothing (on the internet, no less). There's nothing sarcastic about saying "C# is way better suited to making a game like MtG instead C++ (at least the parts it copies from dynamic languages)."

Keep in mind that tone of voice cannot be conveyed through a textual medium, and don't be so touchy about what people say on the internet.

[GandoTheBard]

Hinting is less obvious and more sarcastic (and perhaps condescending) than actually saying what you mean (Though maybe you felt 'technobabble' would be ill-suited as a response so...*shrug*)

Wow, somebody likes taking offense about nothing (on the internet, no less). There's nothing sarcastic about saying "C# is way better suited to making a game like MtG instead C++ (at least the parts it copies from dynamic languages)."

Keep in mind that tone of voice cannot be conveyed through a textual medium, and don't be so touchy about what people say on the internet.

For someone whose words are often overly abrasive you seem to think very little of the written medium. However I derive connotation from the whole context not simply a few of the words. But in particular the phrase "here is a hint:" is what I object to for the stated reasons. And yet I did add the caveat that it might just be a matter of not wanting to get into the messy details. Which counts as a benefit of the doubt. On the other hand the internet is just like any venue only I can't see your face or interact with you physically. That doesn't make it less offensive than say talking on the telephone. Sure the tone of voice can not be conveyed but sarcasm isn't merely about tone of voice. Word choices and order matter a great deal. Now you have no idea how I feel about that except through my words so you seem capable of deriving meaning from words that relate to feeling yourself. If His words meant nothing maybe mine do too. Touchy? Hardly You haven't seen touchy yet.

[MageKing17]

For someone whose words are often overly abrasive

Again, you are creating meaning where there is none. I am not attempting to be abrasive. I am not attempting to be insulting. I am not even attempting to be condescending. I merely seek to clarify any misunderstandings.

However I derive connotation from the whole context not simply a few of the words. But in particular the phrase "here is a hint:" is what I object to for the stated reasons. And yet I did add the caveat that it might just be a matter of not wanting to get into the messy details. Which counts as a benefit of the doubt.

Here is a perfect example of seeing meaning where there is none. He didn't say "here is a hint". He just said "Hint -". A minor difference, perhaps, but seeing phrases where there are none isn't that different from hearing a tone of voice where there is none. I can't guarantee Incantus wasn't being condescending in any way, but I don't think he was.

On the other hand the internet is just like any venue only I can't see your face or interact with you physically. That doesn't make it less offensive than say talking on the telephone. Sure the tone of voice can not be conveyed but sarcasm isn't merely about tone of voice. Word choices and order matter a great deal. Now you have no idea how I feel about that except through my words so you seem capable of deriving meaning from words that relate to feeling yourself. If His words meant nothing maybe mine do too.

On the contrary, tone of voice matters a great deal. Consider the following simple phrase: "Nice shirt." By word choice alone, you cannot tell if this being sarcastic or honestly praising. Tone of voice is everything.

As for why I interpret your words to be "touchy"... true, I cannot hear your tone of voice either. But when you say "Hinting is less obvious and more sarcastic [than] saying what you mean", I'm going to assume (without feeling bad about making an assumption) that you interpreted his words to be sarcastic. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. I much prefer accuracy to ambiguity... hence why I'm having this conversation at all.

[GandoTheBard]

For someone whose words are often overly abrasive

Again, you are creating meaning where there is none. I am not attempting to be abrasive. I am not attempting to be insulting. I am not even attempting to be condescending. I merely seek to clarify any misunderstandings.

However I derive connotation from the whole context not simply a few of the words. But in particular the phrase "here is a hint:" is what I object to for the stated reasons. And yet I did add the caveat that it might just be a matter of not wanting to get into the messy details. Which counts as a benefit of the doubt.

Here is a perfect example of seeing meaning where there is none. He didn't say "here is a hint". He just said "Hint -". A minor difference, perhaps, but seeing phrases where there are none isn't that different from hearing a tone of voice where there is none. I can't guarantee Incantus wasn't being condescending in any way, but I don't think he was.

On the other hand the internet is just like any venue only I can't see your face or interact with you physically. That doesn't make it less offensive than say talking on the telephone. Sure the tone of voice can not be conveyed but sarcasm isn't merely about tone of voice. Word choices and order matter a great deal. Now you have no idea how I feel about that except through my words so you seem capable of deriving meaning from words that relate to feeling yourself. If His words meant nothing maybe mine do too.

On the contrary, tone of voice matters a great deal. Consider the following simple phrase: "Nice shirt." By word choice alone, you cannot tell if this being sarcastic or honestly praising. Tone of voice is everything.

As for why I interpret your words to be "touchy"... true, I cannot hear your tone of voice either. But when you say "Hinting is less obvious and more sarcastic [than] saying what you mean", I'm going to assume (without feeling bad about making an assumption) that you interpreted his words to be sarcastic. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. I much prefer accuracy to ambiguity... hence why I'm having this conversation at all.

Are you going to tell me your style ISN'T confrontational and abrasive? I'm going to have to call you on that if you say yes. First thing you did when someone posted new card ideas on another thread was shoot them down without any sort of kindness or courtesy. I am not saying you were being intentionally insulting but your style is consistently both confrontation and abrasive. Which is fine as long as you cop to it. I do.

I also disagree with with your idea that tone of voice is necessary to convey feeling or emotion. Some times it is, especially when dealing with strangers (as here is the case) but often times in lieu of more specific information words convey feelings and tone without any aural addition. In fact it is usually the case that aurally words are given a greater nuance but that does not lessen the impact of the written word.

In Re: Incantus' phrasing, yes sorry I didn't mean to mistype that, but in fact that IS how I construe what he did type which while maybe not as overtly sarcastic has that potential all the same, particularly when it was completely unnecessary. As far as condescension goes...well no one can say for certain but he who typed the words but I felt it was the kind of thing along with other samples in the past where condescension could easily be inferred even if unintentional. That is to say I detect a style of tone even without vocal augmentation. Just as your own tone comes off (to me anyway) as abrasive (but not condescending or sarcastic).

Seeking clarity is good. Thanks for the attempt.

[MageKing17]

Are you going to tell me your style ISN'T confrontational and abrasive? I'm going to have to call you on that if you say yes. First thing you did when someone posted new card ideas on another thread was shoot them down without any sort of kindness or courtesy. I am not saying you were being intentionally insulting but your style is consistently both confrontation and abrasive. Which is fine as long as you cop to it. I do.

My apologies, but I'm not intending to be confrontational or abrasive, only to avoid misunderstandings. If that makes me sound uncompromising, it's merely because I'm trying to be specific. I disagree with your interpretation of what I said in the custom card thread, but that's irrelevant, because I've already stated my opinion... at the time I clarified (or tried to) that the only reason I didn't go into detail about all of the errors was because nobody had asked me what they were, so I didn't think anybody wanted an infodump of problems. If that was unclear, then thank you for informing me of my lack of clarity, and I'll keep it in mind for the future.

I also disagree with with your idea that tone of voice is necessary to convey feeling or emotion. Some times it is, especially when dealing with strangers (as here is the case) but often times in lieu of more specific information words convey feelings and tone without any aural addition. In fact it is usually the case that aurally words are given a greater nuance but that does not lessen the impact of the written word.

You're free to disagree, even though I don't see how you can think that words are given a greater nuance when you are consistently misinterpreting my attitude.

In Re: Incantus' phrasing, yes sorry I didn't mean to mistype that, but in fact that IS how I construe what he did type which while maybe not as overtly sarcastic has that potential all the same, particularly when it was completely unnecessary. As far as condescension goes...well no one can say for certain but he who typed the words but I felt it was the kind of thing along with other samples in the past where condescension could easily be inferred even if unintentional. That is to say I detect a style of tone even without vocal augmentation. Just as your own tone comes off (to me anyway) as abrasive (but not condescending or sarcastic).

Having the "potential" to be sarcastic doesn't mean something was sarcastic. Speaking from experience, I haven't known Incantus to be a sarcastic individual, so I highly doubt it was meant to be sarcastic. I could be wrong, of course, and he could be sarcastic about a great deal of things and I'm not noticing. After all, I can't really tell his tone of voice over the internet, now can I? Nonetheless, I've known him to generally take things (and say things) in a fairly literal fashion, so I don't think it's likely he meant to be even the least bit insulting, merely brief.

Seeking clarity is good. Thanks for the attempt.

It's been my experience that well over 90% of all problems are caused by misunderstandings, so you can perhaps understand why I try to avoid them as much as possible.

[zerker2000]

Though I am getting confused in the whole "abrasive" , "potential to be sarcastic", and "conveyed through speech/choice of words" topic, I do agree with Gando on the original point:
It is not obvious (at least to me and Gando) how C# is better for programing MTG than C++ , so will someone please clarify what was meant by that?