Updates on the way.
Moderators: BAgate, drool66, Aswan jaguar, gmzombie, stassy, CCGHQ Admins
Re: Updates on the way.
by stassy » 05 Mar 2016, 04:59
There is to note that for some reasons, Shandalar will crash in duel only mode if you use the command prompt windows instead of a custom shortcut.
Everything else seems to work good at 1st glance.
Everything else seems to work good at 1st glance.
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Re: Updates on the way.
by Aswan jaguar » 05 Mar 2016, 05:31
A humongous update,I don't dare even to number to 3000 !!! It will take me forever.Once again thanks Korath for the great work and effort you make for Shandalar! 
People don't forget to erase the cards implemented with this new update from the list of your requested cards in SHANDALAR CARD wishlist! ask for NEW cards!
People don't forget to erase the cards implemented with this new update from the list of your requested cards in SHANDALAR CARD wishlist! ask for NEW cards!
Last edited by Aswan jaguar on 05 Mar 2016, 05:47, edited 1 time in total.
---
Trying to squash some bugs and playtesting.
Trying to squash some bugs and playtesting.
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Re: Updates on the way.
by Misaka Mikoto » 05 Mar 2016, 05:56
Clean install works fine for me. Thank you!
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Re: Updates on the way.
by stassy » 05 Mar 2016, 06:16
Kozilek's Translator cardimage is missing after checking Commander 2015 and Oath of Gatewatch cardimages :
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Re: Updates on the way.
by Korath » 05 Mar 2016, 12:45
Comparatively unsurprising - it was one of three cards I added to the OGW list late in the process, so would have been easy to miss. The other two were Expedition Raptor and Visions of Brutality - are they missing too? I haven't gone through artwork reinstallation myself yet. All three are in the "Not used" folder in the second download here.
On another note, anyone have any bright ideas for an icon design for "this spell can't be countered"? The best I've come up with is vaguely inspired by Counterbalance's art, and I'm really not happy with it:
Also, any other (probably keyworded) abilities people would like to see icons for? I mostly don't add them of my own volition unless at least one card adds them to others. Prowess seems like a contender. Possibly "can't attack", though that overlaps with Defender, of course.
On another note, anyone have any bright ideas for an icon design for "this spell can't be countered"? The best I've come up with is vaguely inspired by Counterbalance's art, and I'm really not happy with it:
- cant-be-countered.png (2.78 KiB) Viewed 8973 times
Also, any other (probably keyworded) abilities people would like to see icons for? I mostly don't add them of my own volition unless at least one card adds them to others. Prowess seems like a contender. Possibly "can't attack", though that overlaps with Defender, of course.
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Re: Updates on the way.
by stassy » 05 Mar 2016, 13:01
The "can't be countered" effect feel like "unblockable", so it's hard to come up with a simple symbol that doesn't make think of the latter, like those:
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Re: Updates on the way.
by Sonic » 05 Mar 2016, 16:13
Updated CardArtUpdate_March2016.zip
Added missing Expedition Raptor, Kozilek's Translator and Visions of Brutality.
Removed Ovinomancer - duplicated in CardArtManalink_2012.zip
Updated total number of cards in CardArtManalink folder: 16625
See below for download:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=17888&start=45#p193390
Added missing Expedition Raptor, Kozilek's Translator and Visions of Brutality.
Removed Ovinomancer - duplicated in CardArtManalink_2012.zip
Updated total number of cards in CardArtManalink folder: 16625
See below for download:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=17888&start=45#p193390
Working On: Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Re: Updates on the way.
by gmzombie » 07 Mar 2016, 15:53
So much good stuff here. I just wish I could figure out how to copy your ogw src to manalink. Haven't figured out how to code just yet..I'm working on that though. 
can I maze of ith your snowstorm?
http://home.comcast.net/~gmzombie/index.html old stuff in here. don't use this stuff right now till I get time to get back into it and readjust.
http://home.comcast.net/~gmzombie/index.html old stuff in here. don't use this stuff right now till I get time to get back into it and readjust.
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Re: Updates on the way.
by Korath » 08 Mar 2016, 22:59
The bugtracker version dropdown menu can only by edited by administrators, so it'll get there as soon as Goblin Hero reads his PMs. <whipcrack/>
The first steps towards the next version, as such are wont to do, have a large percentage of cards using new features - experience counters, cards that can't be countered, spells with (some forms of) multiple non-matching targets, and cards with protection from arbitrary qualities instead of just colors or artifacts:
Reliably detecting whether an "effect" (in the context of the Magic the Gathering comprehensive rules) is from a spell, permanent, or activation, as needed by cards like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Bartel Runeaxe, was surprisingly tricky, and I'm only somewhat confident I got it right.
The difficulty arises from "effect" cards (in the context of the MicroProse MTG implementation - the little orange cards that pop up everywhere) - these can be permanent or until-end-of-turn or until-end-of-whatever effects (comp rules sense again), delayed triggered abilities, workarounds for engine limitations (notably for when-this-dies triggers), etc. If one of these needs to target or deal damage to something, it contains a reference to its source card, but that card is generally no longer where it was when the effect card was created - it'll just about never still be on the stack or the player's hand if that was where it was, and may no longer be on the battlefield, and there's no way to tell.
An extremely common case is for damage "cards", since the MicroProse MTG engine still uses 4th-edition-era rules here, where damage isn't applied until the stack is empty, and then goes through a damage prevention phase. Damage effect cards are a bit unusual in that they're always created by the same function - damage_creature() in the original executables and in Manalink (damage_creature_or_player() and damage_player() are frequently-used front ends, though they always forward to damage_creature() internally), fully replaced by deal_damage() in Shandalar. In theory, then, damage effects can check whether their immediate source is a spell or activation or permanent and record that in a field on the damage card, and I in fact tried this at first... but other delayed triggers and effect cards can sometimes deal damage too, so this turned out not to be enough.
Bartel Runeaxe and Tetsuo Umezawa I think should be ok, since I can't think of any Auras that create delayed effects while they're still spells, let alone targeted ones.
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, though, is problematic. I'm currently relying on a heuristic that mostly seems accurate - for damage, I'm calling it unprotected if the damage's immediate source was from an activation effect card (which I can check easily - there's a small handful of spells that can activate while on the stack, and none of them are in Shandalar or I think in Manalink) or from a permanent type (none of which can deal damage while on the stack). Attachments and blocking aren't an issue, since Aura, Equipment, and creature permanents aren't spells. Targeting currently just checks if the source is still on the stack or in a player's hand, so something like "Instant - At the beginning of your next upkeep, [this card] deals 3 damage to target creature." will be able to target it. (Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger will become annoying corner cases here once you can respond to their triggers with something like Purelace.) So I'm going to have to either come up with a more reliable way of detecting this sort of situation, or do a comprehensive search for cards that might cause it.
I'm also going to have to come back and revisit this once cards can activate from a player's hand. I currently treat cards-in-hand as spells, even though they technically aren't until casting begins; otherwise, you'd be able to begin casting a Swords to Plowshares when Emrakul's the only creature on the bf, not be able to target it, and have to cancel. Worse, the AI goes through the same loop, over and over.
There's also going to be eventual problems with loss of abilities, but I don't expect them to be common, or really to ever actually arise in actual gameplay. The sort of scenario would be a permanent that grants continuous protection to one or more other permanents (like Guildscorn Ward), an effect like Humble or Humility that removes all abilities with a later timestamp, then another effect, either temporary or permanent, that grants a different variety of continuous protection to one of the first set of permanents (like Spare from Evil) with the latest timestamp. In any reasonable implementation for loss-of-ability effects I can think of, while the Humble could correctly remove the marker from the affected permanent that indicates something else is giving it a miscellaneous protection of some sort, the Spare from Evil would add it back for its own effect, and the Guildscorn Ward wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
And, finally, there's still about 40 unrewritten MicroProse cards that can target permanents. These'll all have to be updated to use the targeting functions in Shandalar.dll, since the original versions don't record which card is doing the targeting, just its colors and whether it's an artifact or creature. About a third can already be done idiomatically, using the library of functions I've built up in Shandalar.dll that future-proof them against things like Deflection effects; the rest are a laundry list of things I can't easily do yet - damage prevention, multiblocking (on Blaze of Glory), cards with both mana- and non-mana abilities (Desert, Strip Mine), complex aftereffects (Cyclopean Tomb, Guardian Angel), add subtypes (Mishra's Factory), and so on. For most of these, at the worst I'll still be able to put in shims that use modern targeting, and be able to put off the full rewrites to another day. I'm fairly sure that the nine damage prevention and redirection cards only target the damage effect card, though, not the object being damaged as their current wording requires. Samite Healer is a typical example.
Dealing with all of those is a release blocker. I've also got "effects that add or remove subtypes", "turn defender into a real ability that can be added or removed from cards like in Manalink", and "maybe deal with cards with both mana and nonmana abilities so I can finally have Kjeldoran Outpost in the game" on my wishlist for the next release, depending on how long the rewrites take.
The first steps towards the next version, as such are wont to do, have a large percentage of cards using new features - experience counters, cards that can't be countered, spells with (some forms of) multiple non-matching targets, and cards with protection from arbitrary qualities instead of just colors or artifacts:
- within | Open
Reliably detecting whether an "effect" (in the context of the Magic the Gathering comprehensive rules) is from a spell, permanent, or activation, as needed by cards like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Bartel Runeaxe, was surprisingly tricky, and I'm only somewhat confident I got it right.
The difficulty arises from "effect" cards (in the context of the MicroProse MTG implementation - the little orange cards that pop up everywhere) - these can be permanent or until-end-of-turn or until-end-of-whatever effects (comp rules sense again), delayed triggered abilities, workarounds for engine limitations (notably for when-this-dies triggers), etc. If one of these needs to target or deal damage to something, it contains a reference to its source card, but that card is generally no longer where it was when the effect card was created - it'll just about never still be on the stack or the player's hand if that was where it was, and may no longer be on the battlefield, and there's no way to tell.
An extremely common case is for damage "cards", since the MicroProse MTG engine still uses 4th-edition-era rules here, where damage isn't applied until the stack is empty, and then goes through a damage prevention phase. Damage effect cards are a bit unusual in that they're always created by the same function - damage_creature() in the original executables and in Manalink (damage_creature_or_player() and damage_player() are frequently-used front ends, though they always forward to damage_creature() internally), fully replaced by deal_damage() in Shandalar. In theory, then, damage effects can check whether their immediate source is a spell or activation or permanent and record that in a field on the damage card, and I in fact tried this at first... but other delayed triggers and effect cards can sometimes deal damage too, so this turned out not to be enough.
Bartel Runeaxe and Tetsuo Umezawa I think should be ok, since I can't think of any Auras that create delayed effects while they're still spells, let alone targeted ones.
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, though, is problematic. I'm currently relying on a heuristic that mostly seems accurate - for damage, I'm calling it unprotected if the damage's immediate source was from an activation effect card (which I can check easily - there's a small handful of spells that can activate while on the stack, and none of them are in Shandalar or I think in Manalink) or from a permanent type (none of which can deal damage while on the stack). Attachments and blocking aren't an issue, since Aura, Equipment, and creature permanents aren't spells. Targeting currently just checks if the source is still on the stack or in a player's hand, so something like "Instant - At the beginning of your next upkeep, [this card] deals 3 damage to target creature." will be able to target it. (Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger will become annoying corner cases here once you can respond to their triggers with something like Purelace.) So I'm going to have to either come up with a more reliable way of detecting this sort of situation, or do a comprehensive search for cards that might cause it.
I'm also going to have to come back and revisit this once cards can activate from a player's hand. I currently treat cards-in-hand as spells, even though they technically aren't until casting begins; otherwise, you'd be able to begin casting a Swords to Plowshares when Emrakul's the only creature on the bf, not be able to target it, and have to cancel. Worse, the AI goes through the same loop, over and over.
There's also going to be eventual problems with loss of abilities, but I don't expect them to be common, or really to ever actually arise in actual gameplay. The sort of scenario would be a permanent that grants continuous protection to one or more other permanents (like Guildscorn Ward), an effect like Humble or Humility that removes all abilities with a later timestamp, then another effect, either temporary or permanent, that grants a different variety of continuous protection to one of the first set of permanents (like Spare from Evil) with the latest timestamp. In any reasonable implementation for loss-of-ability effects I can think of, while the Humble could correctly remove the marker from the affected permanent that indicates something else is giving it a miscellaneous protection of some sort, the Spare from Evil would add it back for its own effect, and the Guildscorn Ward wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
And, finally, there's still about 40 unrewritten MicroProse cards that can target permanents. These'll all have to be updated to use the targeting functions in Shandalar.dll, since the original versions don't record which card is doing the targeting, just its colors and whether it's an artifact or creature. About a third can already be done idiomatically, using the library of functions I've built up in Shandalar.dll that future-proof them against things like Deflection effects; the rest are a laundry list of things I can't easily do yet - damage prevention, multiblocking (on Blaze of Glory), cards with both mana- and non-mana abilities (Desert, Strip Mine), complex aftereffects (Cyclopean Tomb, Guardian Angel), add subtypes (Mishra's Factory), and so on. For most of these, at the worst I'll still be able to put in shims that use modern targeting, and be able to put off the full rewrites to another day. I'm fairly sure that the nine damage prevention and redirection cards only target the damage effect card, though, not the object being damaged as their current wording requires. Samite Healer is a typical example.
Dealing with all of those is a release blocker. I've also got "effects that add or remove subtypes", "turn defender into a real ability that can be added or removed from cards like in Manalink", and "maybe deal with cards with both mana and nonmana abilities so I can finally have Kjeldoran Outpost in the game" on my wishlist for the next release, depending on how long the rewrites take.
Last edited by Korath on 17 Mar 2016, 01:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Updates on the way.
by Korath » 14 Mar 2016, 02:28
And on further review, no, none of the cards redirecting or preventing damage to permanents target those permanents. They are: Alabaster Potion, Amulet of Kroog, Argivian Blacksmith, Guardian Angel, Healing Salve, Jade Monolith, Oasis, Rakalite, Samite Healer. (And a handful of cards identical to one of those (mostly Sammy) except for cost/keyworded abilities/power/toughness: Alabaster Wall, Benevolent Ancestor, Clergy en-Vec, Femeref Healer, Healing Leaves, Kithkin Healer, Militant Monk.) I'm currently leaning towards leaving them broken - since they don't reference their putative target at all, they can't be patched in-place like I did with most of the others; and if nobody's been up in arms about Samite Healer's ability to prevent damage to Black Knight, I can't see them objecting too strenuously to Oasis being able to do the same for Horizon Drake. At least for the time being.
Other than those, I've gotten through just about all of the others. The remainder are four astral cards - Orcish Catapult, Goblin Polka Band, Power Struggle, and some of Faerie Dragon's effects. While these all have a similar problem as the damage prevention cards, in that they don't (or don't always) fully target the cards they affect, they're all effects that I can feasibly rewrite at this point.
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The reason I've been putting off cards that have both mana and non-mana activated abilities can more or less be summed up by the scenario: "You have nothing on the battlefield but a Rishadan Port. Can you tap your opponent's land with it?" Obviously not, but the way this engine deals with mana costs is to compute the total possible mana that could be produced, then compare each card's activation costs against that. There's nowhere to store which card is responsible for a given chunk of potential mana, and so no way to directly indicate a card like Rishadan Port can't activate to tap a land with mana paid by tapping itself.
Manalink's solution is to pretend these cards' non-mana abilities have a higher cost when it's trying to determine whether they can be activated -
, 
for Rishadan Port, 
, for Kjeldoran Outpost, 
, , sacrifice for Dreamstone Hedron, and so on - and, when it is being activated, temporarily tap it before charging mana.
The second part of this works ok in practice - there aren't, to my knowledge, any cards that change the amount of mana they produce depending on whether some other card you control (the one activating, in this case) is tapped - but the first is very fragile. Enchant that Rishadan Port with a Wild Growth or get a Mana Flare onto the battlefield, and suddenly its first ability produces {C}
or {C} {C} and the game thinks that's enough to pay for the second ability again.
This is a problem that I've been irritated with for a couple years now. For a long time, I couldn't come up with any better solution than the fairly obvious one: to silently tap the Port, recompute potential mana to see if it had enough to pay the for its second ability, then untap it and either re-recompute potential mana for the benefit of other cards or restore a stashed copy made at the start of the process. MPMTG's CPU requirements are modest by the standards of today's hardware, and I doubt that something like that would have a noticeable effect even when multiplied by thousands of AI branches per turn, but it's still pretty distasteful - it defeats the whole point of precomputing potential mana in the first place, and that's a quite elegant optimization most of the time.
Another fairly obvious method - make every card that registers itself as able to produce mana also respond to another event that makes them remove their mana from the potential mana count instead of adding it, like EVENT_COUNT_MANA does. This was promising, but turned out to be impractical: in edge cases similar to the ones that break when you pretend Rishadan Port costs to tap a land, this ends up needing to be able to find which specific bit of potential mana was previously announced by the card. And if that's recorded anyway, there's no need for the new event.
My current thinking is to put this off for a while longer until I begin to tackle cards with restrictions on how their mana costs or produced mana may be paid or spent - Imperiosaur, Myr Superion, Eldrazi Temple, Cavern of Souls, and so on. I'm already going to have to mark each point of mana with what produced it both in the mana pool and in the potential mana pool to deal with the first two of those examples, and probably to deal with the latter two as well. I may do something like the "good enough" Manalink solution as a stopgap before then - I really want Kjeldoran Outpost - but it'd be error-prone to future-proof it for when I do have a permanent solution in place.
On the other hand, looking at Strip Mine and Elephant Graveyard in my to-rewrite list for miscellaneous protection made me realize that none of that really matters if the non-mana ability has no mana in its cost, so I went through and programmed all the otherwise-blindingly-easy cards that looked like ": Add [some mana] to your mana pool. 
/ / sacrifice something / etc: Do something else."Sleight of MindPurelace'd to the right color and either there's an Enchanted Evening on the battlefield or it's a copy made with Copy Artifact.
Other than those, I've gotten through just about all of the others. The remainder are four astral cards - Orcish Catapult, Goblin Polka Band, Power Struggle, and some of Faerie Dragon's effects. While these all have a similar problem as the damage prevention cards, in that they don't (or don't always) fully target the cards they affect, they're all effects that I can feasibly rewrite at this point.
---
The reason I've been putting off cards that have both mana and non-mana activated abilities can more or less be summed up by the scenario: "You have nothing on the battlefield but a Rishadan Port. Can you tap your opponent's land with it?" Obviously not, but the way this engine deals with mana costs is to compute the total possible mana that could be produced, then compare each card's activation costs against that. There's nowhere to store which card is responsible for a given chunk of potential mana, and so no way to directly indicate a card like Rishadan Port can't activate to tap a land with mana paid by tapping itself.
Manalink's solution is to pretend these cards' non-mana abilities have a higher cost when it's trying to determine whether they can be activated -
, for Rishadan Port, , for Kjeldoran Outpost, , , sacrifice for Dreamstone Hedron, and so on - and, when it is being activated, temporarily tap it before charging mana.The second part of this works ok in practice - there aren't, to my knowledge, any cards that change the amount of mana they produce depending on whether some other card you control (the one activating, in this case) is tapped - but the first is very fragile. Enchant that Rishadan Port with a Wild Growth or get a Mana Flare onto the battlefield, and suddenly its first ability produces {C}
or {C} {C} and the game thinks that's enough to pay for the second ability again.This is a problem that I've been irritated with for a couple years now. For a long time, I couldn't come up with any better solution than the fairly obvious one: to silently tap the Port, recompute potential mana to see if it had enough to pay the
for its second ability, then untap it and either re-recompute potential mana for the benefit of other cards or restore a stashed copy made at the start of the process. MPMTG's CPU requirements are modest by the standards of today's hardware, and I doubt that something like that would have a noticeable effect even when multiplied by thousands of AI branches per turn, but it's still pretty distasteful - it defeats the whole point of precomputing potential mana in the first place, and that's a quite elegant optimization most of the time.Another fairly obvious method - make every card that registers itself as able to produce mana also respond to another event that makes them remove their mana from the potential mana count instead of adding it, like EVENT_COUNT_MANA does. This was promising, but turned out to be impractical: in edge cases similar to the ones that break when you pretend Rishadan Port costs
to tap a land, this ends up needing to be able to find which specific bit of potential mana was previously announced by the card. And if that's recorded anyway, there's no need for the new event.My current thinking is to put this off for a while longer until I begin to tackle cards with restrictions on how their mana costs or produced mana may be paid or spent - Imperiosaur, Myr Superion, Eldrazi Temple, Cavern of Souls, and so on. I'm already going to have to mark each point of mana with what produced it both in the mana pool and in the potential mana pool to deal with the first two of those examples, and probably to deal with the latter two as well. I may do something like the "good enough" Manalink solution as a stopgap before then - I really want Kjeldoran Outpost - but it'd be error-prone to future-proof it for when I do have a permanent solution in place.
On the other hand, looking at Strip Mine and Elephant Graveyard in my to-rewrite list for miscellaneous protection made me realize that none of that really matters if the non-mana ability has no mana in its cost, so I went through and programmed all the otherwise-blindingly-easy cards that looked like "
: Add [some mana] to your mana pool. / / sacrifice something / etc: Do something else."- and some other cards that caught my eye | Open
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Re: Updates on the way.
by Bog Wraith » 20 Mar 2016, 19:22
Bug Tracker does not have Abandoned Shrine 2 as a selection yet so I am posting this here.
After installing the 4 files to update from Abandoned Shrine 1, when I start the program, the game does not run & I get the error report below.
When restoring the 4 files from the Abandoned Shrine 1 backup I have, everything goes back to normal & the game starts & plays as usual.
Here is the error report window:
After installing the 4 files to update from Abandoned Shrine 1, when I start the program, the game does not run & I get the error report below.
When restoring the 4 files from the Abandoned Shrine 1 backup I have, everything goes back to normal & the game starts & plays as usual.
Here is the error report window:
- Attachments
-
- Shandalar.exe Error
'Twas in the bogs of Cannelbrae
My mate did meet an early grave
'Twas nothing left for us to save
In the peat-filled bogs of Cannelbrae.
My mate did meet an early grave
'Twas nothing left for us to save
In the peat-filled bogs of Cannelbrae.
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Re: Updates on the way.
by Korath » 20 Mar 2016, 23:51
Nothing related has changed. Is anyone else seeing this?
(Though since you brought it up, I now see that that function's being called only when it isn't needed, instead of only when it is; so non-Manalink cards and cards from DTK and later only ever show the first version of their artwork. D'oh.)
AS2 will show up in the bugtracker when Goblin Hero sees his PMs, as usual. You can still report problems there and say "AS2" in the title or text or whatever; I'll edit the field once it's in the dropdown.
(Though since you brought it up, I now see that that function's being called only when it isn't needed, instead of only when it is; so non-Manalink cards and cards from DTK and later only ever show the first version of their artwork. D'oh.)
AS2 will show up in the bugtracker when Goblin Hero sees his PMs, as usual. You can still report problems there and say "AS2" in the title or text or whatever; I'll edit the field once it's in the dropdown.
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Re: Updates on the way.
by Misaka Mikoto » 21 Mar 2016, 14:55
AS2 works fine for me; no errors on launch.
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