Impossible Cards (tracking, discussing, etc.)

[nivmizzet1]

Pretty sure it's currently working as it should. I added in a manual color reset in May of last year. I can test it to make sure. It's already in one of my decks. But that won't be for several hours at least.

Yep, it's working properly now. Now I can add my Painter's Servant + Grindstone deck to my mod , but that means I need to spend time improving it first...

[Splinterverse]

Added 17 cards to the list (see OP).

Are any of the following "impossible"?

Angel of Jubilation
Battlefield Thaumaturge
Outmaneuver
Predatory Focus
Premature Burial
Psychic Battle
Ritual of Subdual
Saproling Infestation
Shadow of Doubt

[thefiremind]

Are any of the following "impossible"?

• Angel of Jubilation - Pretty sure it's impossible.
• Battlefield Thaumaturge - Same as Not of This World (whose reason I wouldn't call "unknown", but rather "change cost based on targets", or something like that).
• Outmaneuver, Predatory Focus - "Rhox effects" could be coded by redirecting damage to the defending player. However, as far as I know, only Outmaneuver can be made 100% compliant to the rules because the choice is made when you resolve the spell. The problem with the other ones (Predatory Focus, Rhox and similar) is: when do you ask? Theoretically you should ask just before combat damage is dealt, but I don't know if it's possible, I have never tried. If you ask in the declare blockers step, something might happen after your choice that makes you regret it, and that's not ideal.
• Premature Burial - If it's not possible through an interrogation, I'm pretty sure it's possible by keeping track of the possible targets through a trigger that works in any zone.
• Psychic Battle - Impossible because we can't change targets of abilities.
• Ritual of Subdual - It may be possible with manual mana tapping, but then you should shut down auto-tapping because you would be able to circumvent the restriction through that. For me it's impossible, but wait and hear the opinions of modders who know Riiak's manual mana functions better than me.
• Saproling Infestation - There's a trigger called KICKER_PAID, but I have never tested if it works or not. If it works, then it's easy to code. Otherwise it may be possible by adding a generic cost inside all kicker cards which signals that a card has been kicked (a very big task).
• Shadow of Doubt - Xander9009 already answered about it.

[Splinterverse]

• Angel of Jubilation - Pretty sure it's impossible.
• Battlefield Thaumaturge - Same as Not of This World (whose reason I wouldn't call "unknown", but rather "change cost based on targets", or something like that).
• Outmaneuver, Predatory Focus - "Rhox effects" could be coded by redirecting damage to the defending player. However, as far as I know, only Outmaneuver can be made 100% compliant to the rules because the choice is made when you resolve the spell. The problem with the other ones (Predatory Focus, Rhox and similar) is: when do you ask? Theoretically you should ask just before combat damage is dealt, but I don't know if it's possible, I have never tried. If you ask in the declare blockers step, something might happen after your choice that makes you regret it, and that's not ideal.
• Premature Burial - If it's not possible through an interrogation, I'm pretty sure it's possible by keeping track of the possible targets through a trigger that works in any zone.
• Psychic Battle - Impossible because we can't change targets of abilities.
• Ritual of Subdual - It may be possible with manual mana tapping, but then you should shut down auto-tapping because you would be able to circumvent the restriction through that. For me it's impossible, but wait and hear the opinions of modders who know Riiak's manual mana functions better than me.
• Saproling Infestation - There's a trigger called KICKER_PAID, but I have never tested if it works or not. If it works, then it's easy to code. Otherwise it may be possible by adding a generic cost inside all kicker cards which signals that a card has been kicked (a very big task).
• Shadow of Doubt - Xander9009 already answered about it.

Cool. Thanks for the feedback. I will update the OP at some point this weekend.

What about a card I just looked at -- Rapid Fire? Is there a way to detect if other cards have the rampage ability?

[thefiremind]

What about a card I just looked at -- Rapid Fire? Is there a way to detect if other cards have the rampage ability?

There should be functions in the Community WAD that help making custom characteristics: if all cards with rampage had a custom characteristic for it, then Rapid Fire would work.

About "Rhox effects": I made some tests on Magic Duels, and the moment when the game gives you the chance to make a query during the combat damage step, damage has already been dealt. I miss the END_OF_STEP trigger from DotP2013, why did they remove it?

[Xander9009]

Riiak's Custom Characteristic function are included in the CW. http://mtg.dragonanime.org/index.php?ti ... _Functions

There is no custom characteristic for rampage, but it'd be a pretty simple task to do, since there are only 18 cards with the ability.

[Splinterverse]

OP updated.

[Splinterverse]

[*]Saproling Infestation - There's a trigger called KICKER_PAID, but I have never tested if it works or not. If it works, then it's easy to code. Otherwise it may be possible by adding a generic cost inside all kicker cards which signals that a card has been kicked (a very big task).

I just tried both of these and they didn't work, so maybe it is impossible without coding all of the kicker cards?

Code: Select all

<TRIGGER value="KICKER_PAID" />
      
<TRIGGER value="SPELL_PLAYED">
     return TriggerObject():WasKicked()
</TRIGGER>

[thefiremind]

I just tried both of these and they didn't work, so maybe it is impossible without coding all of the kicker cards?

Code: Select all

<TRIGGER value="KICKER_PAID" />
      
<TRIGGER value="SPELL_PLAYED">
     return TriggerObject():WasKicked()
</TRIGGER>

Then yeah, it needs something added on the kicker cards. For example, inside the kicker cost, you could add

Code: Select all

<COST type="generic">
  <PREREQUISITE>
  return true
  </PREREQUISITE>
  <RESOLUTION_TIME_ACTION>
  MTG():FireTrigger( TRIGGER_KICKER_PAID, EffectSource() )
  </RESOLUTION_TIME_ACTION>
</COST>

and then the trigger should fire correctly.

The second code you tried can't work because WasKicked() isn't set until the spell starts to resolve.

About "Rhox effects", I thought about them more, and there's an additional scenario where the approximation fails, Outmaneuver included. If all the blocking creatures are somehow removed from combat before combat damage is dealt, the attacking creature will deal no combat damage at all (unless it has trample), so you would have no damage to redirect to the defending player.
Here's a list of cards with "reassign combat damage" effects, not only those functionally identical to Rhox:

• Butcher Orgg
• Cunning Giant
• Deathcoil Wurm
• Gurzigost
• Lone Wolf
• Outmaneuver
• Predatory Focus
• Pride of Lions
• Rhox
• Siege Behemoth
• Spinebiter
• Thorn Elemental
• Tornado Elemental
• Wolf Pack

Now, whether you want to add the whole list to the impossible cards, or consider them as approximated (and remove Outmaneuver and Predatory Focus from the impossible list), it's up to you.
What we would really need in order to code these cards is a way to deal combat damage manually. Up until DotP2013, the DealDamage function allowed to specify combat damage; when it got substituted by DealDamageTo, we lost that possibility.

[Splinterverse]

Then yeah, it needs something added on the kicker cards. For example, inside the kicker cost, you could add

Code: Select all

<COST type="generic">
  <PREREQUISITE>
  return true
  </PREREQUISITE>
  <RESOLUTION_TIME_ACTION>
  MTG():FireTrigger( TRIGGER_KICKER_PAID, EffectSource() )
  </RESOLUTION_TIME_ACTION>
</COST>

and then the trigger should fire correctly.

I tried the above and it didn't work, but maybe I need to add more to it or maybe the TRIGGER_KICKER_PAID doesn't work at all. Thanks for the idea.

For that list of "Rhox", I'm leaning toward impossible, but I'll give it a bit and see if anyone else responds with any thoughts on it.

[thefiremind]

I tried the above and it didn't work, but maybe I need to add more to it or maybe the TRIGGER_KICKER_PAID doesn't work at all.

It's possible that you can't fire triggers from inside COST blocks. I have never tried before.

EDIT: I just noticed Morality Shift in the impossible list. I think it's perfectly fine to code. Save pointers for all cards in either your library or graveyard (maybe the thinner one, so you do it faster), move the cards from the other location into the location you saved pointers for, then move the cards from the saved pointers to the other location. If you are worried about the Gatherer rule "You can choose the order of the cards being placed into the graveyard", the cards for which graveyard ordering matters are just a few and they won't print other ones ever again.

[Splinterverse]

It's possible that you can't fire triggers from inside COST blocks. I have never tried before.

I just now tried moving it from the Cost section to the spell's main Spell Ability block and it didn't trigger Saproling Infestation. Perhaps that trigger doesn't work.

[Xander9009]

It's possible that you can't fire triggers from inside COST blocks. I have never tried before.

I just now tried moving it from the Cost section to the spell's main Spell Ability block and it didn't trigger Saproling Infestation. Perhaps that trigger doesn't work.

Would you mind posting the code?

[Splinterverse]

It's possible that you can't fire triggers from inside COST blocks. I have never tried before.

I just now tried moving it from the Cost section to the spell's main Spell Ability block and it didn't trigger Saproling Infestation. Perhaps that trigger doesn't work.

Would you mind posting the code?

Sure thing. The attached .zip contains Saproling Infestation and Prohibit. Prohibit is a newly coded card that is working and will be uploaded later today. This copy of Prohibit contains my most recent attempt at causing the kicker trigger to fire.

[thefiremind]

My code is meant to use with KICKER_PAID trigger, which you commented out. The one you kept, with SPELL_PLAYED and WasKicked, has no chance of working, as I wrote earlier.