Forge Beta Release: 01-13-2017 ver 1.5.58

[PsyintZ]

Have you tried clearing cache and cookies?

Sure have. I'm truly at a loss. I've looked all over the net, and simply cannot figure out what would be causing this. Thankfully friarsol helped me solve the issue that was causing Forge to crash, so at least I am able to play with that again. I just don't know what I'm going to do when it comes to updating to a newer version, if I'm not able to download tar.gz2 files. Hmph!

[Agetian]

@ Xyx: I updated some of the cards you mentioned above, at least the ones that were intuitive and easy enough to implement without overhauling the AI, so hopefully that should give you some extra room for experiments (check rev 33411 commit for details).

Also, Time Vault and Nevinyrral's Disk definitely work for the AI, I tested them just now - the AI would use Time Vault ASAP (there's even a Voltaic Key combo deck among quest opponent decks) and it would generally use Nevinyrral's Disk when its opponent has some stuff on its side of the battlefield, I'm not sure about the exact conditions - it definitely doesn't just always fire it, but if you give yourself a couple Serra Angels and the opponent the Disk the AI will definitely fire away as soon as it is untapped.

- Agetian

[twentytwo]

Moving cards around in players hand is kind of choppy...

I've narrowed down the problem to single revision number. It started from r33069 where you added new desktop Forge Targeting Overlay code. r33068 works smooth for me.

I know it's a minor issue and maybe it's working as intended but it's annoying . Also my cpu usage is twice as high when draging cards from players hand.

PS. I'm testing on PC.

[Agetian]

Moving cards around in players hand is kind of choppy...

I've narrowed down the problem to single revision number. It started from r33069 where you added new desktop Forge Targeting Overlay code. r33068 works smooth for me.

I know it's a minor issue and maybe it's working as intended but it's annoying . Also my cpu usage is twice as high when draging cards from players hand.

PS. I'm testing on PC.

Hmm, I can't reproduce it, either before or after r33069. While I do register some momentary CPU activity increase when dragging cards around in hand, it quickly goes down to zero after the movement is over and it does not seem to cause any performance degradation that I can notice. At any rate, since you relate this to the targeting overlay code overhaul, can you also clarify a couple points: 1) what is your targeting overlay setting? (on/off/mouseover) 2) what is your operating system? 3) what are your PC specs, in particular, the amount of RAM?

- Agetian

[twentytwo]

1) I'm testing this on latest snapshot atm. When I launch the game, my tagerting overlay setting is not checked at all(?). After I choose the Always or On Mouse Over option the problem appears. It's super smooth when I turn the Targeting Arcs Off.

Switching through thoes options in r33068 keeps the card dragging smooth every time.

2) I'm on Windows 8.1 Pro x64.

3) i5-4210U @ 1,7 GHz (2,4 GHz) but I tend to use it in eco mode @ 0.77 GHz. The problem is still there when I'm @ 1,7 GHz.

I'm using 8 GB of RAM.

[Agetian]

Ok, I just committed r33416 trying to remedy the situation, but it's very difficult to tell whether that helped anything since I'm not having the "choppiness" part of the issue even without that code. Still, this does reduce CPU use by a good amount on my machine, so hopefully it will be able to help remedy the slowness you are experiencing.

- Agetian

[twentytwo]

Sorry to say that, but this change did not helped (r33417) . Also I've found that it is not related to card dragging at all. The "slowdown" occurs only when in match screen. I can see it affecting card draging, hovering over turn buttons, droping down menu bar (while in full screen mode) etc. As far as I can tell, it's not affecting gameplay speed.
As previously the whole issue goes away when I turn off Tagerting Arcs.

So I guess the new targeting arcs code must be more cpu heavy or there's an issue at my side. I'll try to reproduce it on linux later.

[Agetian]

Sorry to say that, but this change did not helped (r33417) . Also I've found that it is not related to card dragging at all. The "slowdown" occurs only when in match screen. I can see it affecting card draging, hovering over turn buttons, droping down menu bar (while in full screen mode) etc. As far as I can tell, it's not affecting gameplay speed.
As previously the whole issue goes away when I turn off Tagerting Arcs.

So I guess the new targeting arcs code must be more cpu heavy or there's an issue at my side. I'll try to reproduce it on linux later.

Hmm the new targeting arc code is definitely not any heavier per se than it used to be. Actually, I'm surprised that you're having issues now but you did not have them before, since the old targeting overlay code used to continuously tax the CPU when drawn (especially noticeable when playing in "always on" mode), for a simple experiment, try going back to the old revision, enable the targeting overlay, wait for at least one arrow to appear and see the level of the CPU use at that moment and until the arrow disappears (you may even experience the CPU fan turning on to the high level at the point). What the new code does is it eliminates continuous polling of the targeting overlay, instead replacing it with targeted polling at certain events and also at certain time periods. So, certain momentary "spikes" in CPU use (not very heavy, just going up to a certain extent and then immediately going down) are normal with the new code, but this should not normally be visually noticeable, especially on modern CPUs like yours. I haven't noticed any additional slowdown on any of the three machines I have tried Forge on, which makes me feel a bit puzzled as to what could be going on. :/ Anyway, I'll investigate a bit more, stay tuned.

EDIT: Hmm, I don't really see a way to actually make this new system any lighter weight than it is, so my friend and I will be returning the old targeting overlay system as an option such that you and everyone else who is running Forge on hardware that is unable to cope up with the new system can still enjoy Forge as before. Note that this will be optional and should be enabled in Forge preferences, since the new overlay system is generally better and not nearly as taxing on modern hardware running full-speed.

- Agetian

[Agetian]

@twentytwo: Ok, you can try r33419 - go ahead and disable "Enable Targeting Overlay Optimization" in Preferences, that should bring back the old behavior which should hopefully make Forge work fast like before for you

- Agetian

[twentytwo]

YES! That did it. Thank you very much for adding that option Agetian I'll better go and do some more 'testing' to make sure it's fully working

[Xyx]

check rev 33411 commit for details

Would love to! How would I go about that?

Time Vault and Nevinyrral's Disk definitely work for the AI

I believe you but they definitely didn't work when I made the Limited Edition Beta quest world. I tested every single card and tried to get the AI to cast/activate them under a variety of circumstances. I would give the AI a deck with all the cards of a specific color (or artifacts), then I'd play against it and whenever it used a card, I would remove that from the deck. I would be left with a deck full of cards that it absolutely wouldn't use. In the case of Time Vault and Nevinyrral's Disk it would cast them but then never activate them.

Were there any fundamental changes to the AI in the past year? I now can't get it to cast Armageddon either, but it was fine in the past (just as with Natural Order.) There's probably a bunch of broken quest decks now.

[Agetian]

check rev 33411 commit for details

Would love to! How would I go about that?

Here:
http://svn.slightlymagic.net/websvn/rev ... &peg=33411
And since then I patched up Phyrexian Dreadnought, too.

Time Vault and Nevinyrral's Disk definitely work for the AI

I believe you but they definitely didn't work when I made the Limited Edition Beta quest world. I tested every single card and tried to get the AI to cast/activate them under a variety of circumstances. I would give the AI a deck with all the cards of a specific color (or artifacts), then I'd play against it and whenever it used a card, I would remove that from the deck. I would be left with a deck full of cards that it absolutely wouldn't use. In the case of Time Vault and Nevinyrral's Disk it would cast them but then never activate them.
Were there any fundamental changes to the AI in the past year? I now can't get it to cast Armageddon either, but it was fine in the past (just as with Natural Order.) There's probably a bunch of broken quest decks now.

Hmm I just tried Armageddon and it did work fine for me too. I don't remember any groundbreaking changes in the AI over the last year or so but there were incremental updates and changes, too. What could have changed is that these cards you're mentioning (Armageddon, Nevinyrral's Disk) might have become more conditional, as they most likely should be. I don't think the AI will blindly activate the Disk anymore, as well as maybe it won't just blindly mash Armageddon at its earliest convenience. It could now be evaluating permanents on the battlefield, for example, or something like that (granted, I haven't checked the code, but for instance, 4 Plains and 1 Armageddon in AI's hand and 10 lands on my side of the battlefield definitely makes the AI cast Armageddon).

- Agetian

[Xyx]

Here:
http://svn.slightlymagic.net/websvn/rev ... &peg=33411

Ooh, so many new toys! Thank you!

Hmm I just tried Armageddon and it did work fine for me too.

Now I wish I had taken a screenshot. Just a few hours ago I was staring at an AI with half a dozen creatures versus my nothing, with two copies of Armageddon in its hand that it wouldn't cast for like 10 turns. I cheated my life to 100 to give it time to play out the other cards in its hand and I even played out more lands than it had hoping that "human has more lands" would trigger the 'geddon. Nothing.

This is probably too silly to ask, but just to be on the safe side... it doesn't matter which expansion the Armageddon or Natural Order card is from, right? I'm working on a Portal quest world now, so I'm only trying Portal cards. (But Limited Edition Beta Stone Rain didn't work for me either back then.)

[DaniUG]

I found a weird bug in the Android version. 1.5.59.001
and as you can see a new "card" appeared called Emrakul Effect (wich is unplayable I tried just to check) and in the other one I casted my commander and after casting it still appeared in the command zone.

This is a weird bug alright. So far I can't reproduce it yet, but I'm looking into what's causing it and how to fix it, stay tuned.

- Agetian

Since you said you could not replicate the bug I tried to do it in the newest version 1.5.59.002 and it happened exactly the same

Here is just before activating Karn's Ultimate

Here is the board just after doing the ultimate

Here is the board when the AI has played its commader

HEre I played my Commander and not long after that got the Commander's Effect Card

As you can see the error persists. I don't know how to help. Posting my deck would help? Both times I was playing against Random generated Decks.

[friarsol]

Have you tried clearing cache and cookies?

Sure have. I'm truly at a loss. I've looked all over the net, and simply cannot figure out what would be causing this. Thankfully friarsol helped me solve the issue that was causing Forge to crash, so at least I am able to play with that again. I just don't know what I'm going to do when it comes to updating to a newer version, if I'm not able to download tar.gz2 files. Hmph!

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