KORATH'S MODS CANNOT BE DOWNLOADED/DELETED

[dingbat1]

I am not an intellectual property lawyer, but I do find this all sad but interesting. Also, I am not sure I understand Walrus's post. Are you saying that all of Wizard's of the Coasts intellectual property outside the original scope and duration of their original license with Microprose can be used without their consent, because Atari retained the rights to the code for a 20 year old game? That so long as we don't attempt to create a fresh new game, we can use any new art, characters, and flavor text they write, without Wizards having a cause of action?

As a lawyer, I can say that that post is wrong

There's two separate issues:
1) IP of the software itself. It'd be a chore to figure out who owns those rights, and if it ever became an issue, I'd file a motion to dismiss for lack of standing- basically saying that if the plaintiff can't prove they own the rights, they should just go away
2) IP of the various cards. This is the specifics of the cards themselves, the art, the name, the keywords, power/toughness, etc. (not to mention the game mechanics themselves, WoC patented tapping)
WoC undoubtedly owns those rights, and they will win. Typically, first comes a cease&desist letter, politely asking everyone involved to stop working on the software, and to halt distribution.
If the polite letter doesn't work, next they sue for an injunction - basically having the court tell you you must stop. If that doesn't work, they bring suit again, and it's fine/jail time

At any point they can also claim damages. They would need to prove loss of sales, and need to provide an estimate of how much they lost. This is much harder than it sounds, and if you don't have a lot of money, they won't bother (this is more common in company v company lawsuits

[walrus]

I am not an intellectual property lawyer, but I do find this all sad but interesting. Also, I am not sure I understand Walrus's post. Are you saying that all of Wizard's of the Coasts intellectual property outside the original scope and duration of their original license with Microprose can be used without their consent, because Atari retained the rights to the code for a 20 year old game? That so long as we don't attempt to create a fresh new game, we can use any new art, characters, and flavor text they write, without Wizards having a cause of action?

The point I was trying to say really this; we are not creating commercial or non-commercial product based on WOTC's product. We are just creating modifications to existing code that is owned by Atari. The modified code is protected by the fact that it is just that... code. It is just an abstract idea depent on commercial product to work and it wouldn't consistute in itself any kind of IP breach. That I'm pretty sure based on legal training I received. Dunno if it is different in the States.

As a lawyer, I can say that that post is wrong

Distributing art, etc. of course would be IP breach, but Korath didn't do that. And yes, WOTC could sue us about it. They absolutely could do that... but in real world, would they? The point really is it would be ridiculous waste of time and money even start the process. I mean, even at this site, there are several programs that cause more significant damage to WOTC's bottomline and they haven't done anything about them.

Basically, what I think really happened here is that assburger managed to broke camel's back. Korath was putting considerable amount of work on this project and most people couldn't even comprehend how time consuming and tedious it was. Based on the source code, it is just total mess and I'm honestly surprised he managed to modify it even this far. For all the work he did, the payoff just wasn't there, especially when certain people were constantly giving him shit about his work. At that point, it is perfectly reasonable answer to just raise your hands into air and say "f*ck this shit". Korath most likely has far better use for his limited time than listening petulent children threatening him, shitting on his work, and demand new stuff without compensation.

EDIT: Clarified my stance

[Friendsofsandwiches]

My question is, what is the current state of the shandalar game as it is?
It seems all links to download new, and even the older 2010 game are all removed.
If that's the case, is this site halting all work on old and new shandalar, and only working on manalink?
Also has anyone been talking to Korath about where he stands with the project? It does seem like he needed some time off considering how much he was working on it, and then bozobrain threatening to call the WoTCops on the whole project.

[Aswan jaguar]

Friendsofsandwiches, first of all please don't delete your posts as I had just answered to that post and my post was lost because you deleted the original.

Besides the microprose iso I don't know any other shandalar installations here in shandalar forums and the iso's link is up and running but it is in torrent form as it has always have been.So,which links/installations you mean are down besides Korath's ones.

[Friendsofsandwiches]

Sorry Mr Jaguar,
I had just reedited it, and checked this other thread, realized the topic was pretty much the same, so nuked my post, as it looked at the time like it was still unresponded to, and posted in this one.
The actions must have happend literally within seconds of each other.
As far as the 2010 version, Edit: I am a big dumb dummy dumb who does not know how to scroll downward.

[Friendsofsandwiches]

Okay, again apologies, the links ARE there, and just as confusing as the first time I saw them.
This appears to be the newest version I have,
Manalink 3.0
January 5, 2013 v2 Update
although I also had another beta mode dragon dungeon something or other version

I gotta say trying to figure out what patch is which, and how to install them properly is confusing at best.
I'm starting to think you guys should just do a yearly or biyearly compilation install package.

As far as wizards/hasbro wanting to recoup any possible lost revenue from this game, you would have to ask how well their own online card system actually works.

I find it very telling that a lot of magic players are also programmers. I mean if you think about it, each card is in essense, a code of programming for your deck. Just... I've never heard of a computer program getting mana hosed.

[Friendsofsandwiches]

Okay, I see the problem now, I was using Spork's rolled up installs, which while terribly convenient, do not seem to lend themselves well to other mods.
(which btw, the links for them are still up)

Truth be told, those are probably the best options for most people.

[TheKillerNacho]

Korath, please come back

[stassy]

*cough* check the ML3 bug reports sections *cough*

[Haytrid]

I am a long time forum skulker and appreciator of Korath's tireless and thankless work on Shandalar. I can not begin to tell you how many thousands of hours I have into Shandalar and how much more enjoyment I have received from it since his contributions.

I was very saddened to see the drama which unfolded due to one ungrateful bastard.

His work did not go unnoticed or unappreciated. I hope he finds some peace of mind following this unfortunate event and I wish him the best.

Thank you very much to everyone who has persevered on this project and to Korath for his impressive contributions.

Regards,

Haytrid

[VladVoivode]

*cough* check the ML3 bug reports sections *cough*

*sneeze* Any specific topic? *sneeze*

[Zero Cool]

Korath, please come back
I've been away for awhile but thanks for all the hard work either way perhaps in the future someone else can take over, or maybe this game will just die out like WotC would like. It is a shame shandalar is like the best MTG video game and its 20 years old...

[Tenka]

Time to speak up instead of skulking. Please come back Korath! .. You do amazing work, don't let the misguided ravings of some guy on the internet throw you off.

In any case, thank you very much for your work up to this point. I have had a blast playing your mods.

[Misaka Mikoto]

Because of some life stuff, I missed the Hall of the Sultan 3 update. I scrolled back up the thread today to discover what happened. It makes me sadder than I can say.

Korath, thank you for all you’ve done. I hope you get the joy of creation back—what you’ve done has brought happiness to so many. Thanks for everything.

I’d love to get that last update if anyone has it—but if that’s not possible, I understand. You have my gratitude regardless, Korath. Best wishes to you.

[Skippy666]

I'm also looking for the Hall of the Sultan 3 update. If anyone can message me a dropbox link or the like, I would be eternally grateful.

Also, major shoutout to Korath and all of the people who made this project possible. This game brought me many hours of joy in my youth and the update has reignited my love for magic to the point where I have gotten back into it after many years.

I hope this project comes back, and I would be grateful for anyone who can help me get the latest update.