Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
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Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by RumbleBBU » 19 Feb 2014, 15:53
This would be one of my biggest beefs with autotapping, too. If I have a Black Lotus on the board, autotap will happily sac rather than tap those untapped, reusable basic lands I have.schnautzr wrote:If "Auto" is pressed while Tinder Farm is untapped, it is sacrificed automatically, even if the player could have used the other ability or a different land instead.
It would make more sense to me if it preferred reusable, no-drawback mana sources.
Maybe an option to set autotapping preferences? Maybe an option to make it ignore one-use mana sources or sources with drawbacks (such as pain lands)? Maybe an option to make it ignore artifact mana sources?
Perhaps even "autotap basic lands only"?
It would also help if I could manually set individual permanents as "Do not autotap this."
Finally, if a spell wants, say 2UU mana, and I have, for example, 4 untapped islands and 8 untapped plains in play...autotap seems to think that tapping all 4 islands is what I want to do, leaving me with 8 untapped plains and no untapped islands. Who wants to leave UU untapped anyway, especially in UW control play and with Drain/CS in hand? :/
It seems to me that there could be a bit more 'intelligence' when choosing what to autotap - at least try to balance untapped mana sources somehow.
Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by Fizanko » 19 Feb 2014, 17:06
Hello, i had downloaded and installed the LQ set from there :
http://mark.tvk.rwth-aachen.de/software/forge/
As it's from 2013 and i imagine some things have changed/been added (and started to notice some card without their specific images on random decks) i decided to give a try at the download content with "Download LQ pictures"
Forge tells me "13870 items found"
And start to download them slowly one by one.
In my ....\Application Data\Forge\Cache\pics\cards i have more than 20000 items already from extracting the LQ set.
I tried to move the installed cards folder elsewhere, so i was back to having no image, and still the download content from Forge continue to tell me "13870 items found" and start download 1 by 1 slowly.
So it looks like Forge is completely ignoring (despite it is using them correctly when i play) that i have already tons of those card images.
Is there a way to have Forge only downloading what i may not have instead of the whole thing again ?
Other question, is it possible to move all the Forge content located in the user/application data directory into the actual game directory (where the Forge.exe is i mean) , and have Forge only refering to it instead of using my user/application data for saving settings and managing images ?
http://mark.tvk.rwth-aachen.de/software/forge/
As it's from 2013 and i imagine some things have changed/been added (and started to notice some card without their specific images on random decks) i decided to give a try at the download content with "Download LQ pictures"
Forge tells me "13870 items found"
And start to download them slowly one by one.
In my ....\Application Data\Forge\Cache\pics\cards i have more than 20000 items already from extracting the LQ set.
I tried to move the installed cards folder elsewhere, so i was back to having no image, and still the download content from Forge continue to tell me "13870 items found" and start download 1 by 1 slowly.
So it looks like Forge is completely ignoring (despite it is using them correctly when i play) that i have already tons of those card images.
Is there a way to have Forge only downloading what i may not have instead of the whole thing again ?
Other question, is it possible to move all the Forge content located in the user/application data directory into the actual game directory (where the Forge.exe is i mean) , and have Forge only refering to it instead of using my user/application data for saving settings and managing images ?
Last edited by Fizanko on 19 Feb 2014, 17:07, edited 1 time in total.
probably outdated by now so you should avoid : Innistrad world for Forge (updated 17/11/2014)
Duel Decks for Forge - Forge custom decks (updated 25/10/2014)
Duel Decks for Forge - Forge custom decks (updated 25/10/2014)
Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by drdev » 19 Feb 2014, 17:07
@RumbleBBU It's not really a matter of adding preferences. We just need to improve the AI logic so the order of mana sources used is more logical, as doing so would improve both the Auto button and the quality of the AI player. We should also add a confirmation prompt if non-undoable mana sources would need to be used to pay the cost. We could also include in that confirmation if any cards with an affordable non-mana ability would need to be tapped (like manlands).
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Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by VladVoivode » 19 Feb 2014, 18:34
Hi Fizanko,Fizanko wrote:Hello, i had downloaded and installed the LQ set from there :
http://mark.tvk.rwth-aachen.de/software/forge/
As it's from 2013 and i imagine some things have changed/been added (and started to notice some card without their specific images on random decks) i decided to give a try at the download content with "Download LQ pictures"
Forge tells me "13870 items found"
And start to download them slowly one by one.
In my ....\Application Data\Forge\Cache\pics\cards i have more than 20000 items already from extracting the LQ set.
I tried to move the installed cards folder elsewhere, so i was back to having no image, and still the download content from Forge continue to tell me "13870 items found" and start download 1 by 1 slowly.
So it looks like Forge is completely ignoring (despite it is using them correctly when i play) that i have already tons of those card images.
Is there a way to have Forge only downloading what i may not have instead of the whole thing again ?
Other question, is it possible to move all the Forge content located in the user/application data directory into the actual game directory (where the Forge.exe is i mean) , and have Forge only refering to it instead of using my user/application data for saving settings and managing images ?
In the content downloaders section, just select the option "Download Cards for Each Set" or something like that - I am on my way to band practice and don't have the program up. Anyhow, what this does is scan your art for what you already have and adds what you are missing. I've done that once last week and once this week and this function downloaded only 1500 images - ones that were missing. I still don't any BNG cards yet with LQ pics, but, this other function does save you time in that it adds as opposed to overwrites.
Hope this helps!
Keep tapping,
Vlad
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Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by Fizanko » 19 Feb 2014, 18:55
Thank you , that was indeed what i was looking for, as it told me only 1334 items were missing.
The other option seems to redownload everything.
I hope it will be possible somehow to move every of the user/appdata content into the actual game folder and have the game finding it, as it would then make it easy to have the game portable and complete without having to mess around any user/appdata directory on other people computers.
The other option seems to redownload everything.
I hope it will be possible somehow to move every of the user/appdata content into the actual game folder and have the game finding it, as it would then make it easy to have the game portable and complete without having to mess around any user/appdata directory on other people computers.
probably outdated by now so you should avoid : Innistrad world for Forge (updated 17/11/2014)
Duel Decks for Forge - Forge custom decks (updated 25/10/2014)
Duel Decks for Forge - Forge custom decks (updated 25/10/2014)
Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by Marek14 » 19 Feb 2014, 19:44
Two Wurm tokens from Wurmcoil Engine shouldn't stack... they are very different
Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by Fizanko » 19 Feb 2014, 21:11
Replying to myself as i finally figured it out, and maybe it can help some users wanting the same thing :Fizanko wrote:Other question, is it possible to move all the Forge content located in the user/application data directory into the actual game directory (where the Forge.exe is i mean) , and have Forge only refering to it instead of using my user/application data for saving settings and managing images ?
In the forge directory there's the forge.profile.properties.example
Rename it to
forge.profile.properties
Open it with a text editor
Scroll down and you'll see
What's important are those lines :# This is where Forge will save your personal data, such as your saved decks,
# preferences, and quest progress. If you want to back up your data or copy it
# to another computer, this is the directory to copy. The default value is
# platform-specific, and may differ a bit from what is listed here if you have
# an older version of Windows:
# Windows: <your application data directory>/Forge/
# (usually, C:/Users/<your username>/Application Data/Roaming/Forge/)
# OSX: <your home directory>/Library/Application Support/Forge/
# Linux: <your home directory>/.forge/
userDir=
# This is where forge will keep downloaded content, such as card pictures and
# updated price lists. The default values are:
# Windows: <your local application data directory>/Forge/Cache/
# (usually C:/Users/<your username>/Application Data/Local/Forge/Cache/)
# OSX: <your home directory>/Library/Caches/Forge/
# Linux: <your home directory>/.cache/forge/
cacheDir=
# This is where forge will download and/or look for card picture data. The
# directory structure and filenames are the same as those used by Magic
# Workstation, and if you have both programs installed, you can share the same
# picture database between them. The default value (for all plaforms) is:
# <the cacheDir defined above>/pics/cards/
cardPicsDir=
Now let's say i want every user/appdata content to go into a folder named " ca " (just an example) that will be located in my Forge directory (the directory in which there is the forge.exe used to launch the game)userDir=
cacheDir=
cardPicsDir=
I will then change those 3 lines into :
And save the changes, make sure the file is still nameduserDir=./ca/
cacheDir=./ca/Cache/
cardPicsDir=./ca/Cache/pics/cards/
forge.profile.properties
and not
forge.profile.properties.txt
Now put all your card into you
....\forge-gui-1.5.12\ca\Cache\pics\cards\
And launch the game, and it will work and will not write anymore anything in the user/appdata directory.
Everything will be inside the game actual directory, wherever you choose to put that game directory, meaning this way it becomes portable.
Then when the next version of Forge will come, simply move the /ca/ folder, along the forge.profile.properties into that new version directory
Now i'm on window xp sp3 , i can't guarantee this will work on vista/seven/8 due to all those folder security things.
probably outdated by now so you should avoid : Innistrad world for Forge (updated 17/11/2014)
Duel Decks for Forge - Forge custom decks (updated 25/10/2014)
Duel Decks for Forge - Forge custom decks (updated 25/10/2014)
Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by Fizanko » 19 Feb 2014, 22:25
While playing the Quest mode, after the 2nd round of the 3rd duel in which i got beat, then i went back to the deck editor to give my deck the new card i selected.
Oddly i noticed my deck wasn't selected by default (previous battle it was) , so i went to the Quest Duel main page then reclicked on the Deck Editor, and this error happened :
Description: [describe what you were doing when the crash occurred]
Oddly i noticed my deck wasn't selected by default (previous battle it was) , so i went to the Quest Duel main page then reclicked on the Deck Editor, and this error happened :
Description: [describe what you were doing when the crash occurred]
- NullPointerException | Open
probably outdated by now so you should avoid : Innistrad world for Forge (updated 17/11/2014)
Duel Decks for Forge - Forge custom decks (updated 25/10/2014)
Duel Decks for Forge - Forge custom decks (updated 25/10/2014)
Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by andrewd13 » 20 Feb 2014, 05:07
Description: While trying to start a game with an AI, the human player selecting the deck "quest7". Appears to happen with all quest decks.
- NoSuchElementException | Open
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Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by RumbleBBU » 20 Feb 2014, 08:10
Oh, I quite agree - the best solution is the most transparent one, i.e., improve the autotapping logic so that the player often wouldn't take notice of it. There's a lot of room for improvement here, definitely, and autotapping logic is the place to start.drdev wrote:@RumbleBBU It's not really a matter of adding preferences. We just need to improve the AI logic so the order of mana sources used is more logical, as doing so would improve both the Auto button and the quality of the AI player. We should also add a confirmation prompt if non-undoable mana sources would need to be used to pay the cost. We could also include in that confirmation if any cards with an affordable non-mana ability would need to be tapped (like manlands).
Of course there will always be cases where autotapping still wouldn't automatically give the desired result...
As for confirmation popups, I'm not very keen on them from UI design pov. Especially if they are repetitive and you tend to always respond the same way - they quickly become a distraction and just get in the way. Which is why I personally prefer a set-once-and-forget style option instead of having to repeatedly say, "No, I still don't want to do that!"
One possibility would be a solution similar to how the window close button is currently handled: the game would give you a popup with a "always use this choice" checkbox (that would set the relevant option - of course you could manually change it later).
Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by Hellfish » 20 Feb 2014, 09:13
Borrowing a solution from modern society at large: "Don't trust computers with everything, they really are quite stupid in the best of cases."RumbleBBU wrote:Of course there will always be cases where autotapping still wouldn't automatically give the desired result...
Edit: I'm not *actively trying* to be a smartass but rereading does give that impression.Sorry. >_> What I mean is that you probably shouldnt trust the AI, improved or not, with single-use, non-undoable mana sources that you care about.
So now you're
Screaming for the blood of the cookie monster
Evil puppet demon of obesity
Time to change the tune of his fearful ballad
C is for "Lettuce," that's good enough for me
Screaming for the blood of the cookie monster
Evil puppet demon of obesity
Time to change the tune of his fearful ballad
C is for "Lettuce," that's good enough for me
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Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by Bundy » 20 Feb 2014, 14:30
I activate Wakestone Gargoyle and attack with Souls of the Faultless. Computer blocks it and i gain life equal to the combat damage, but i do not loose life. I am the attacking player so should have lost the life i gained.
Regarding auto paying mana:
I play Gaea's Anthem and use auto. 5 lands are used to pay
,3 x Reflecting Pool and 2 other lands because the Reflecting Pools only produced white mana. 
Regarding auto paying mana:
I play Gaea's Anthem and use auto. 5 lands are used to pay
,3 x Reflecting Pool and 2 other lands because the Reflecting Pools only produced white mana. - Bundy
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Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by gos » 20 Feb 2014, 15:18
The game freezes up when I cast Past in Flames from the graveyard. I had active Pyromancer Ascensions, I don't know whether that has any affect.
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Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by drdev » 20 Feb 2014, 15:37
So should we ignore single-use, non-undoable mana sources when determining when the Auto button should be enabled? Will that confuse people into thinking they can't afford something when all they'd need to do is sacrifice a Wild Cantor for example?Hellfish wrote:Borrowing a solution from modern society at large: "Don't trust computers with everything, they really are quite stupid in the best of cases."RumbleBBU wrote:Of course there will always be cases where autotapping still wouldn't automatically give the desired result...
Edit: I'm not *actively trying* to be a smartass but rereading does give that impression.Sorry. >_> What I mean is that you probably shouldnt trust the AI, improved or not, with single-use, non-undoable mana sources that you care about.
And how should we handle manlands and other mana sources with a non-mana activated ability (or being a creature that could instead attack)? Obviously prioritize them behind all other mana sources, but should those also be excluded from auto-pay, or should they receive a prompt?
I think a preference to control this behavior is probably best the more I think about it. Max, since you've been working on mana payment recently, how hard would it be to make these changes? At the very least we should start by skipping over single-use mana sources since that's currently the biggest frustration. Though we'll need to improve the determination of the Auto button enabled state to be updated every time mana is added to your pool, in case you decide to first manually sacrifice something for mana, then can afford to auto-pay the rest.
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Re: Forge Beta: 02-07-2014 ver 1.5.12
by friarsol » 20 Feb 2014, 15:44
People managed just fine before auto mana came about to be able to figure out if they could pay for things or not. I almost feel like auto payment should only consider lands (and I guess artifacts) without any non-mana abilities, and additionally skip undoable mana abilities to force the player to interact with it. It'll slow auto down in some cases, but simplify so many other things. Prompts to me make the auto function useless and should be avoided. If I have multiple things that have sacrifice costs, I should be the one to choose them.drdev wrote:So should we ignore single-use, non-undoable mana sources when determining when the Auto button should be enabled? Will that confuse people into thinking they can't afford something when all they'd need to do is sacrifice a Wild Cantor for example?
And how should we handle manlands and other mana sources with a non-mana activated ability (or being a creature that could instead attack)? Obviously prioritize them behind all other mana sources, but should those also be excluded from auto-pay, or should they receive a prompt?
I think a preference to control this behavior is probably best the more I think about it. Max, since you've been working on mana payment recently, how hard would it be to make these changes? At the very least we should start by skipping over single-use mana sources since that's currently the biggest frustration. Though we'll need to improve the determination of the Auto button enabled state to be updated every time mana is added to your pool, in case you decide to first manually sacrifice something for mana, then can afford to auto-pay the rest.
What if I try to cast Hymn to Tourach with only a Phyrexian Tower with 5 different creatures in play? There's no way auto should work with that (I'm not sure if it does now or not).
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