June Tournament (tournament complete; scherbchen1 wins)
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by discoransom » 16 Jun 2010, 05:20
Match CD
Jatill (Progenitus) vs Taron (Progenitus)
Game 1:
I have to mull a one-lander which is off color. Then I keep a one-lander with two cantrip walls plus a Path and Swords (no Natural Order). I swords his first mana dude, and he plays 2 Birds of Paradise. Path to Exile is not looking good here. I Path my own Wall and pray the AI doesn't have it.
He does have it, but then I draw my own Natural Order and Legend-rule him after taking one big hit. I have Simic Sky Swallower in hand, so in theory it's advantage me.
AI then plays Eureka and throws down Progenitus. Well, you can't beat the stone cold nuts.
Game 2:
I look at 2 fetchlands, two Swords, two Path, and a Wall of Blossoms. I spend forever thinking about a mulligan here. I finally do mulligan. The 6-card hand is 3 Path, 2 land, and Sky Swallower. Yuck. Down to 5. Five card hand is 2 land, Wall of Blossoms, Wall of Roots, and Natural Order. SCHWING!
I get in one hit with Progenitus and then he plays Eureka, dropping both Platinum Angel and Progenitus, and oh by the way a Lightning Greaves. Path takes care of the Angel and I have a second Natural Order in hand and this time I get there.
Game 3:
I mulligan with two Wall of Roots, one Swords, and 2 Wall of Denial. I need action against the turbo-build of Taron. My 6 card hand is 3 land, Wall of Omens, Wall of Denial, and Swords. Another tough decision. I have to mulligan. 5 Card hand is two land, Overgrown Battlement, Wall of Roots, Wall of Omens. It's good enough.
AI has the turn 3 Progenitus and there's not a damn thing I can do.
1-2
Taron (Progenitus) vs Jatill (Progenitus)
Game 1:
I have 3 land, Natural Order, Platinum Angel, Eureka, and Naturalize. I don't think this is good enough to keep, but I may be wrong. Second hand is land and a Spirit Guide. Now I feel dumb for the first mulligan. Down to 5. Two land, Birds, Eureka, and Natural Order. Very nice, especially when I draw Progenitus.
Turn two I get to Lightning Greaves my birds, so when I draw a land it's Eureka time, with Natural Order backup.
AI manages a turn three Progenitus off a Wall of Roots, sacrificing his Wall of Blossoms. I miss my second land drop in a row and I take hit number one.
I hit my next land drop and Eureka out an Angel, and of course bonk his Progenitus with mine. He Paths in response to my Equipping Greaves on the Angel, so now it's a million walls staring at a bird, but I drew a Eureka.
AI goes Natural Order again, but I cancel it with mine, and play a Noble Heirarch. I draw Progenitus and play a second copy of Eureka. He topdecks a Sky Swallower on his turn, but I'm ahead in the race, and win.
Game 2:
I just can't buy a good 7 card hand today. I have land, Naturalize, Platinum Angel, and Spirit Guide. Not good enough. My six card hand is another dilemma. It's zero land, but 4 mana elves and Natural Order, plus a Progenitus. I keep because I'm on the draw.
I draw mana elf number 5. I draw mana elf number six. AI plays walls, and I finally hit 2 land in a row, netting me 4 elves and ready to go off. After taking a hit, the AI Natural Orders, but I have another in my hand. Naturally, the AI plays a second Natural Order and it's nothing but walls vs elves.
Turns go by, and eventually I draw Natural Order and win.
2-0
Jatill= 0 points
Taron= 5 points
Jatill (Progenitus) vs Taron (Progenitus)
Game 1:
I have to mull a one-lander which is off color. Then I keep a one-lander with two cantrip walls plus a Path and Swords (no Natural Order). I swords his first mana dude, and he plays 2 Birds of Paradise. Path to Exile is not looking good here. I Path my own Wall and pray the AI doesn't have it.
He does have it, but then I draw my own Natural Order and Legend-rule him after taking one big hit. I have Simic Sky Swallower in hand, so in theory it's advantage me.
AI then plays Eureka and throws down Progenitus. Well, you can't beat the stone cold nuts.
Game 2:
I look at 2 fetchlands, two Swords, two Path, and a Wall of Blossoms. I spend forever thinking about a mulligan here. I finally do mulligan. The 6-card hand is 3 Path, 2 land, and Sky Swallower. Yuck. Down to 5. Five card hand is 2 land, Wall of Blossoms, Wall of Roots, and Natural Order. SCHWING!
I get in one hit with Progenitus and then he plays Eureka, dropping both Platinum Angel and Progenitus, and oh by the way a Lightning Greaves. Path takes care of the Angel and I have a second Natural Order in hand and this time I get there.
Game 3:
I mulligan with two Wall of Roots, one Swords, and 2 Wall of Denial. I need action against the turbo-build of Taron. My 6 card hand is 3 land, Wall of Omens, Wall of Denial, and Swords. Another tough decision. I have to mulligan. 5 Card hand is two land, Overgrown Battlement, Wall of Roots, Wall of Omens. It's good enough.
AI has the turn 3 Progenitus and there's not a damn thing I can do.
1-2
Taron (Progenitus) vs Jatill (Progenitus)
Game 1:
I have 3 land, Natural Order, Platinum Angel, Eureka, and Naturalize. I don't think this is good enough to keep, but I may be wrong. Second hand is land and a Spirit Guide. Now I feel dumb for the first mulligan. Down to 5. Two land, Birds, Eureka, and Natural Order. Very nice, especially when I draw Progenitus.
Turn two I get to Lightning Greaves my birds, so when I draw a land it's Eureka time, with Natural Order backup.
AI manages a turn three Progenitus off a Wall of Roots, sacrificing his Wall of Blossoms. I miss my second land drop in a row and I take hit number one.
I hit my next land drop and Eureka out an Angel, and of course bonk his Progenitus with mine. He Paths in response to my Equipping Greaves on the Angel, so now it's a million walls staring at a bird, but I drew a Eureka.
AI goes Natural Order again, but I cancel it with mine, and play a Noble Heirarch. I draw Progenitus and play a second copy of Eureka. He topdecks a Sky Swallower on his turn, but I'm ahead in the race, and win.
Game 2:
I just can't buy a good 7 card hand today. I have land, Naturalize, Platinum Angel, and Spirit Guide. Not good enough. My six card hand is another dilemma. It's zero land, but 4 mana elves and Natural Order, plus a Progenitus. I keep because I'm on the draw.
I draw mana elf number 5. I draw mana elf number six. AI plays walls, and I finally hit 2 land in a row, netting me 4 elves and ready to go off. After taking a hit, the AI Natural Orders, but I have another in my hand. Naturally, the AI plays a second Natural Order and it's nothing but walls vs elves.
Turns go by, and eventually I draw Natural Order and win.
2-0
Jatill= 0 points
Taron= 5 points
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by juzamjedi » 16 Jun 2010, 14:25
A couple of suggestions:Cognis wrote:No kidding, my deck sometimes gets colour screwed because I was so afraid of Blood Moon that I only included 4 dual lands.
1. Building a mana base that can survive Blood Moon isn't too bad. You can play with more fetches than the 4 currently in your list. Definitely go max on the Windswept Heath. Once you know you are playing against a blood moon player you go get your non-mountain sources first with fetch lands.
2. Ajani Vengeant would actually be easier on your mana base than Ajani Goldmane (because Blood Moon gives red and you'll probably want your first 3 lands to be one of each color anyway).
3. The only card I'm surprised did not make your list was Baneslayer Angel. Your strategy is kind of a "big Zoo" and she fits in that strategy well as a finisher.
Before this tournament I did not know Bloodbraid Elf is also more busted in Manalink than she is in real life so definitely a good choice there.
The card choice of yours that I loved the most was Dragonmaster Outcast. AI doesn't usually remove it even though he's one of the most dangerous threats any time he hits the table. I don't know how many matches were won by humans abusing this against the AI although I would guess he won most of the games he hit the table.
Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by Nyktorion » 16 Jun 2010, 20:37
First, congratulations to Yggdrasil for winning our bracket
Your midrange deck was definitely a good idea against Zoo. While I thought that Sword of Fire and Ice would give me some nice fighting chances later in the game (and indeed, I did in my test), just 2 cards devited to that were obviously by far not enough ^^
On to my results for the current round...
Bracket AB:
Juzamjedi wins 2-0 vs Scherbchen AI (+2 pts for Juzamjedi)
Scherbchen wins 2-0 vs Juzamjedi AI (+2 pts for Scherbchen)
As Juzamjedi, in the first game I could power out a lot of lords starting from turns 3-4 with the help of Aether Vial. The AI ot a Progenitus at turn 4, but my lords overran him just be he could kill me. In the second game, I was very light on mana, but a Goblin Lackey brought out all important Goblins for me.
When I played as Scherbchen, the AI had a rather slow start twice. I won the first game by just beating at him with small critters, and the second game by Progenitus (just after he finally became explosive).
Bracket CD:
Jatill loses 1-2 to Taron AI (+3 pts for Taron)
Taron wins 2-0 vs Jatill AI (+2 pts for Taron)
As Jatill, I lost the first game to an early Progenitus by the AI, just after I hardcast my own Simic Sky Swallower using Overgrown Battlement. I even drew my own Natural Order just before I died (the legend rule would kill his Progenitus, and mine, if I got my own). However, my only Progenitus sat in my hand. I won the second game with two Sky Swallowers before the AI got to play Natural Order. The last game, I lost to a third turn Progenitus.
As Taron, an early Progenitus quickly won the first game. In game two, I clogged up the ground with lots of walls, preventing his mana critters from attacking. Later, I cast a Platinum Angel, and the AI Natural Orders for a Simic Sky Swallower (not for a Progenitus, so Progenitus probably sat in the AI's hand), and Plowshared my Angel - ouch! The Sky Swallower got me down to one life, then I finally got another Platinum Angel. After a long time, I got Lightning Greaves for my Platinum Angel, cementing my "immortality". When I got my own Natural Order, I finally won.
Bracket EF:
Cognis wins 2-1 vs Jundinator AI (+1 pt for Cognis)
Jundinator wins 2-0 vs Cognis AI (+2 pts for Jundinator)
As Cognis, lots of removal, a Tarmogoyf and a Sprouting Thrinax hit me so hard that I lost the first game. After lots of removal on both sides, Sarkhan Vol wins the second game for me with his ultimate (the AI put up heavy resistance, though: in the end, only one of the five dragon tokens remained). After lots of stalling and removal, I finally win the third game by card advantage: Kitchen Finks and Imperial Recruiter beat Bloodbraid Elf and Blightning in that regard this time.
As Jundinator, I used the same pattern twice: early removal kept the table clean, and then I won with my own creatures. In game one, these creatures were Bloodbraid Elf + Sprouting Thrinax, in game two, it was a Broodmate Dragon.
Bracket GH:
Discoransom wins 2-0 vs Yggdrasil AI (+2 pts for Discoransom)
Yggdrasil wins 2-0 vs Discoransom AI (+2 pts for Yggdrasil)
Both Disco wins went essentially the same way. First, I disrupted the AI with some removal, and Diabolic Edicts, and then, Baneslayer Angel(s) won the game for me.
As Yggdrasil, I just laid down enough creatures to overcome his removal and discard in both games.

On to my results for the current round...
Bracket AB:
Juzamjedi wins 2-0 vs Scherbchen AI (+2 pts for Juzamjedi)
Scherbchen wins 2-0 vs Juzamjedi AI (+2 pts for Scherbchen)
As Juzamjedi, in the first game I could power out a lot of lords starting from turns 3-4 with the help of Aether Vial. The AI ot a Progenitus at turn 4, but my lords overran him just be he could kill me. In the second game, I was very light on mana, but a Goblin Lackey brought out all important Goblins for me.
When I played as Scherbchen, the AI had a rather slow start twice. I won the first game by just beating at him with small critters, and the second game by Progenitus (just after he finally became explosive).
Bracket CD:
Jatill loses 1-2 to Taron AI (+3 pts for Taron)
Taron wins 2-0 vs Jatill AI (+2 pts for Taron)
As Jatill, I lost the first game to an early Progenitus by the AI, just after I hardcast my own Simic Sky Swallower using Overgrown Battlement. I even drew my own Natural Order just before I died (the legend rule would kill his Progenitus, and mine, if I got my own). However, my only Progenitus sat in my hand. I won the second game with two Sky Swallowers before the AI got to play Natural Order. The last game, I lost to a third turn Progenitus.
As Taron, an early Progenitus quickly won the first game. In game two, I clogged up the ground with lots of walls, preventing his mana critters from attacking. Later, I cast a Platinum Angel, and the AI Natural Orders for a Simic Sky Swallower (not for a Progenitus, so Progenitus probably sat in the AI's hand), and Plowshared my Angel - ouch! The Sky Swallower got me down to one life, then I finally got another Platinum Angel. After a long time, I got Lightning Greaves for my Platinum Angel, cementing my "immortality". When I got my own Natural Order, I finally won.
Bracket EF:
Cognis wins 2-1 vs Jundinator AI (+1 pt for Cognis)
Jundinator wins 2-0 vs Cognis AI (+2 pts for Jundinator)
As Cognis, lots of removal, a Tarmogoyf and a Sprouting Thrinax hit me so hard that I lost the first game. After lots of removal on both sides, Sarkhan Vol wins the second game for me with his ultimate (the AI put up heavy resistance, though: in the end, only one of the five dragon tokens remained). After lots of stalling and removal, I finally win the third game by card advantage: Kitchen Finks and Imperial Recruiter beat Bloodbraid Elf and Blightning in that regard this time.
As Jundinator, I used the same pattern twice: early removal kept the table clean, and then I won with my own creatures. In game one, these creatures were Bloodbraid Elf + Sprouting Thrinax, in game two, it was a Broodmate Dragon.
Bracket GH:
Discoransom wins 2-0 vs Yggdrasil AI (+2 pts for Discoransom)
Yggdrasil wins 2-0 vs Discoransom AI (+2 pts for Yggdrasil)
Both Disco wins went essentially the same way. First, I disrupted the AI with some removal, and Diabolic Edicts, and then, Baneslayer Angel(s) won the game for me.
As Yggdrasil, I just laid down enough creatures to overcome his removal and discard in both games.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by Cognis » 16 Jun 2010, 20:59
1. That's good advicejuzamjedi wrote:A couple of suggestions:Cognis wrote:No kidding, my deck sometimes gets colour screwed because I was so afraid of Blood Moon that I only included 4 dual lands.
1. Building a mana base that can survive Blood Moon isn't too bad. You can play with more fetches than the 4 currently in your list. Definitely go max on the Windswept Heath. Once you know you are playing against a blood moon player you go get your non-mountain sources first with fetch lands.
2. Ajani Vengeant would actually be easier on your mana base than Ajani Goldmane (because Blood Moon gives red and you'll probably want your first 3 lands to be one of each color anyway).
3. The only card I'm surprised did not make your list was Baneslayer Angel. Your strategy is kind of a "big Zoo" and she fits in that strategy well as a finisher.
Before this tournament I did not know Bloodbraid Elf is also more busted in Manalink than she is in real life so definitely a good choice there.
The card choice of yours that I loved the most was Dragonmaster Outcast. AI doesn't usually remove it even though he's one of the most dangerous threats any time he hits the table. I don't know how many matches were won by humans abusing this against the AI although I would guess he won most of the games he hit the table.
2. Vengenant would probably be good in the later game, but the problem is that I rarely made it into late game when testing so I couldn't really weigh the benefits of one against the other, Goldmane is not in the deck because of his ultimate ability but because he pumps and give vigilance and can turn puny guys into powerhouses, especially when he comes back from the grave with Eternal Witness
3. Well Baneslayer Angel never crossed my mind but it would be good later on
All and all I think I would take out Scute Mob and replace it with another Dragonmaster Outcast, trade 2 Kitchen Finks for 2 Baneslayer Angel and add 2 more fetch lands, maybe try changing Ajani for Ajani and see how it works, although I never understood how great Goldmane is until I saw him in your monowhite tournament deck, as to Bloodbraid Elf I don't know if he's busted or no since I haven't played table magic in a while but I think it fits in the deck perfectly
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by aww1979 » 16 Jun 2010, 22:48
That advice makes pretty good sense, but I think that the AI plays Ajani Goldmane better than Ajani Vengeant, so I'd stand by that card here. For the human, I could see going either way here.
Scoring updates:
AB: scherbchen up by 4 points (11 players reported)
CD: taron up by 17 points (11 players reported)
EF: cognis up by 10 points (10 players reported)
GH: yggdrasil up by 28 points (9 players reported)
Scoring updates:
AB: scherbchen up by 4 points (11 players reported)
CD: taron up by 17 points (11 players reported)
EF: cognis up by 10 points (10 players reported)
GH: yggdrasil up by 28 points (9 players reported)
Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by taron » 17 Jun 2010, 13:32
How many players was it aww? 15 right?
Quite excited, first tournament with you guys, I have only unlocked like 3 cards as well and yet my deck is doing quite well.
I spose there is something to dropping t1 progenitus
I quite liked playing with Jatill's deck, has more or less all of my favourite walls, omens, blossoms, battlement and denial. The bant wall combo of sadface.
And it seems to be a bit more solid, but from what I can tell, mine has the edge because it's more explosively fast, and the multiple copies of progenitus is good, prevents any (well nearly any, one testing game i got all 4 in opening hand
) problems with drawing them into hand and having no way to throw them back. One of the other decks did that alright with Jace2.0 and brainstorm, but if you didn't have that, you seemed to be in a bit of trouble.
Quite excited, first tournament with you guys, I have only unlocked like 3 cards as well and yet my deck is doing quite well.
I spose there is something to dropping t1 progenitus

I quite liked playing with Jatill's deck, has more or less all of my favourite walls, omens, blossoms, battlement and denial. The bant wall combo of sadface.
And it seems to be a bit more solid, but from what I can tell, mine has the edge because it's more explosively fast, and the multiple copies of progenitus is good, prevents any (well nearly any, one testing game i got all 4 in opening hand

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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by Shantak » 17 Jun 2010, 15:38
Bracket AB:
JUZAMJEDI vs SCHERBCHEN (AI)
Fast attacking with goblins until Progenitus arrives. He only gets to swing once, as I manage to attack with enough force to kill AI before the second hit.
1-0
My offense is much slower this game, but AI doesn't find a Natural Order so the goblin horde soon walks over him (AI dies at -41 life, I'm at 7).
2-0
SCHERBCHEN vs JUZAMJEDI (AI)
Turn 3 Progenitus for me. I swing once... but then AI attacks with two suddenly summoned and hasted Piledrivers with a Warchief and few other gobbos.. I go from 18 to -5 in one swing. Careless from me maybe, but other than leaving Progenitus to block, I couldn't have done much else.
0-1
Early Progenitus and this time I could leave Kitchen Finks behind to block surprise attacks.
1-1
I can't find a Natural Order, but I slowly build my forces, control a Goblin King and attack with an Overrun from Garruk. AI loses all its creatures blocking that attack. I coul win in a few turns just by attacking, but since it's my first time and since Fateseal shows I'm in no danger, I exile AI's library with Jace, the Mind Sculptor and watch AI deck himself.
2-1
Bracket CD (or The Great Progenitus Race):
JATILL vs TARON (AI)
Third turn Progenitus from me. AI responds with its own, shuffling both back. I get then Simic Sky Swallower. AI responds with Natural Order and Progenitus. I get another Natural Order and save myself after being hit once. Sky Swallower wins the game for me.
1-0
Next game, a quick Progenitus for me. I swing once before AI gets a counter-Progenitus. However, I have another Natural Order ready in hand... but no green creatures
AI then gets its own Progenitus. I have six removal spells in hand but can't do a thing (and I couldn't remove the sacrificial creature as it had Lightning Greaves on). I Path of Exile my own Wall of Omens in hope of thinning my deck before drawing. Nothing helps. I'm dead.
1-1
Third game, AI gets third turn Natural Order. I can only watch as my walls do nothing while the hydra avatar destroys me.
1-2
TARON vs JATILL (AI)
Fourth turn AI Progenitus and then I draw my own Progenitus. This could get problematic. Luckily I have mana to cast Platinum Angel. Let's see him get through that (well, the deck has tons of removal). Then AI does just that and swords my Angel. Then AI uses another Natural Order for Simic Sky Swallower. I'm dead.
0-1
Third turn Proggy for me. AI doesn't get Natural Order soon enough and dies.
1-1
Fourth turn Proggy for me. AI doesn't have mana for its own (it didn't know when to use Wall of Roots) or it doesn't have one. As I'm about to win, I peek at AI's hand. No NO and jatill's only Progenitus in hand. Victory for me
2-1
Bracket EF:
COGNIS vs AWW1979 (Jundinator) (AI)
I have two 3/3 Wild Nacatls on second turn. Jund gets Tarmogoyf, I respond with my own. Then a Sprouting Thrinax which I open with one Nacatl. AI gets Bloodbraid Elf (with a bolt to my other Wild Nacatl). I'm lacking a fourth land. AI gets second elf, cascading in Diabolic Edict. Now AI can alpha strike me and I'm dead in two turns.
0-1
Second game looks more even, but AI can destroy more than I and has stronger creatures. When AI gets Broodmate Dragon I fear I'm losing, but then I get an Imperial Recruiter and recruit a Dragonmaster Outcast. Now lets hope AI doesn't topdeck a removal... He does! A Terminate! At... at my Kor Skyfisher??? Well, I'm starting to pump out 5/5 Dragons and win in a few turns
1-1
AI has mana problems, only one land. I don't hesitate to take advantage of that and attack as much as I can. Situation doesn't improve and I win easier than with a Progenitus.
2-1
AWW1979 (Jundinator) vs COGNIS (AI)
I have better tempo at start and cascade helps me keep it up.
1-0
Now AI had a better start and we're exchanging creatures quite evenly. Midgame, he plays Sarkhan Vol and starts doing serious damage while I'm drawing mostly lands. I can't topdeck good enough and am done for.
1-1
Third game, my chances improve once I get Broodmate Dragons into play. Some attacks and a Blightning later I win.
2-1
Bracket GH:
DISCORANSOM vs YGGDRASIL (AI)
AI removes all my early creatures, but I then play a Baneslayer Angel. He plays a Balefire Liege but sacrifices it instead of Qasali Pridemage when I cast a Diabolic Edict. We both swing for 5 each turn but my swinger has lifelink. Win.
1-0
Second game I get to cast two Hymns before AI does anything significant. I get a Tombstalker to play and Vindicate his remaining Thoctar. Then I get a Baneslayer Angel while AI has no cards in hand. Easy victory thanks to good draws and early discard against AI.
2-0
YGGDRASIL vs DISCORANSOM (AI)
I get some early swings in with Figure of Destiny, but AI makes me discard some good cards. Then Diabolic Edicts drop my Figure and Thoctar. AI gets Baneslayer to play but I respond with Swords to Plowshares. Then I get a Balefire Liege and Ranger of Eos and then two Figures. AI dies to my Liege as I cast the last Figure.
1-0
Second game starts a bit better for me than AI, but it's pretty even. He gets a Baneslayer I can't kill then. I keep attacking with other creatures. They're just enough and AI dies at -3 while I'm at 6 life.
2-0
And that's it. I also tested my own deck against Yggdrasil's (won with it 2-1, but the games were hard and with Yggdrasil's deck I got an easy 2-0 victory), but sees that it couldn't have done much against Yggdrasil either.
JUZAMJEDI vs SCHERBCHEN (AI)
Fast attacking with goblins until Progenitus arrives. He only gets to swing once, as I manage to attack with enough force to kill AI before the second hit.
1-0
My offense is much slower this game, but AI doesn't find a Natural Order so the goblin horde soon walks over him (AI dies at -41 life, I'm at 7).
2-0
SCHERBCHEN vs JUZAMJEDI (AI)
Turn 3 Progenitus for me. I swing once... but then AI attacks with two suddenly summoned and hasted Piledrivers with a Warchief and few other gobbos.. I go from 18 to -5 in one swing. Careless from me maybe, but other than leaving Progenitus to block, I couldn't have done much else.
0-1
Early Progenitus and this time I could leave Kitchen Finks behind to block surprise attacks.
1-1
I can't find a Natural Order, but I slowly build my forces, control a Goblin King and attack with an Overrun from Garruk. AI loses all its creatures blocking that attack. I coul win in a few turns just by attacking, but since it's my first time and since Fateseal shows I'm in no danger, I exile AI's library with Jace, the Mind Sculptor and watch AI deck himself.
2-1
Bracket CD (or The Great Progenitus Race):
JATILL vs TARON (AI)
Third turn Progenitus from me. AI responds with its own, shuffling both back. I get then Simic Sky Swallower. AI responds with Natural Order and Progenitus. I get another Natural Order and save myself after being hit once. Sky Swallower wins the game for me.
1-0
Next game, a quick Progenitus for me. I swing once before AI gets a counter-Progenitus. However, I have another Natural Order ready in hand... but no green creatures

1-1
Third game, AI gets third turn Natural Order. I can only watch as my walls do nothing while the hydra avatar destroys me.
1-2
TARON vs JATILL (AI)
Fourth turn AI Progenitus and then I draw my own Progenitus. This could get problematic. Luckily I have mana to cast Platinum Angel. Let's see him get through that (well, the deck has tons of removal). Then AI does just that and swords my Angel. Then AI uses another Natural Order for Simic Sky Swallower. I'm dead.
0-1
Third turn Proggy for me. AI doesn't get Natural Order soon enough and dies.
1-1
Fourth turn Proggy for me. AI doesn't have mana for its own (it didn't know when to use Wall of Roots) or it doesn't have one. As I'm about to win, I peek at AI's hand. No NO and jatill's only Progenitus in hand. Victory for me
2-1
Bracket EF:
COGNIS vs AWW1979 (Jundinator) (AI)
I have two 3/3 Wild Nacatls on second turn. Jund gets Tarmogoyf, I respond with my own. Then a Sprouting Thrinax which I open with one Nacatl. AI gets Bloodbraid Elf (with a bolt to my other Wild Nacatl). I'm lacking a fourth land. AI gets second elf, cascading in Diabolic Edict. Now AI can alpha strike me and I'm dead in two turns.
0-1
Second game looks more even, but AI can destroy more than I and has stronger creatures. When AI gets Broodmate Dragon I fear I'm losing, but then I get an Imperial Recruiter and recruit a Dragonmaster Outcast. Now lets hope AI doesn't topdeck a removal... He does! A Terminate! At... at my Kor Skyfisher??? Well, I'm starting to pump out 5/5 Dragons and win in a few turns
1-1
AI has mana problems, only one land. I don't hesitate to take advantage of that and attack as much as I can. Situation doesn't improve and I win easier than with a Progenitus.
2-1
AWW1979 (Jundinator) vs COGNIS (AI)
I have better tempo at start and cascade helps me keep it up.
1-0
Now AI had a better start and we're exchanging creatures quite evenly. Midgame, he plays Sarkhan Vol and starts doing serious damage while I'm drawing mostly lands. I can't topdeck good enough and am done for.
1-1
Third game, my chances improve once I get Broodmate Dragons into play. Some attacks and a Blightning later I win.
2-1
Bracket GH:
DISCORANSOM vs YGGDRASIL (AI)
AI removes all my early creatures, but I then play a Baneslayer Angel. He plays a Balefire Liege but sacrifices it instead of Qasali Pridemage when I cast a Diabolic Edict. We both swing for 5 each turn but my swinger has lifelink. Win.
1-0
Second game I get to cast two Hymns before AI does anything significant. I get a Tombstalker to play and Vindicate his remaining Thoctar. Then I get a Baneslayer Angel while AI has no cards in hand. Easy victory thanks to good draws and early discard against AI.
2-0
YGGDRASIL vs DISCORANSOM (AI)
I get some early swings in with Figure of Destiny, but AI makes me discard some good cards. Then Diabolic Edicts drop my Figure and Thoctar. AI gets Baneslayer to play but I respond with Swords to Plowshares. Then I get a Balefire Liege and Ranger of Eos and then two Figures. AI dies to my Liege as I cast the last Figure.
1-0
Second game starts a bit better for me than AI, but it's pretty even. He gets a Baneslayer I can't kill then. I keep attacking with other creatures. They're just enough and AI dies at -3 while I'm at 6 life.
2-0
And that's it. I also tested my own deck against Yggdrasil's (won with it 2-1, but the games were hard and with Yggdrasil's deck I got an easy 2-0 victory), but sees that it couldn't have done much against Yggdrasil either.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by scherbchen1 » 17 Jun 2010, 21:07
match AB:
as me versus juzamjedi (2-0): mull to 6 to get more than one land. drop 2 Wall of Blossoms to stave off the AI, Control Magic a Goblin Chieftain and NO on turn 5 and NO on turn 6 for Spike Weaver just to be sure knowing that the AI has no instant direct damage (that it actually knows how to use) to take him out.
match 2 I keep an iffy hand of 2 lands plus hierarch, 2 Control Magic, Force of Will and Fact or Fiction. would really like something versus a t1 Goblin Lackey but decide against the mulligan in the end. the AI plays Aether Vial and not much else in the beginning. I control a hasty Warchief and keep punding with my exalted hierarch. Kitchen Finks show up to play some D and the AI is willing to trade his newly cast Goblin Lackey and Goblin Warchief for my stolen, exalted Warchief. fine by me. Fact or Fiction refuels into Wall of Blossoms, Kitchen Finks and another Noble Hierarch. NO shows off a Wall-draw and speeds things up.
rematch as juzamjedi (2-1): 3 Mountain, 2 Wasteland, Vial and Ringleader on the draw? meh, not good enough. mull into a slightly better hand with 2 lands, 2 warchief, vial, and Ringleader. don't really want to go to 5 cards. t3 NO ends the game.
match 2 drop a lot of lords on the table via Mountains and vial with the AI colorscrewed on green mana.
match 3 hasty piledrivers win.
match CD:
as taron (1-2): match 1 get a lot of mana critters but no business spells. lose to SSS.
game 2 NO on turn 3 which goes unanswered.
game 3 mull to 5 to get at least one mana source. AI NOs turn 3 and I do the same the next turn. AI swords my only critter in game before I can use Elvish Spirit Guide next turn to ramp up the mana for another NO. then the AI plays NO. I have answers in the form of Eureka / Platinum Angel or NO but have only 2 lands in play and no critters on the board. I die.
rematch as jatill (2-0): low on lands but Wall of Roots and Overgrown Battlement help out for NO while the AI enjoys playing with Lightning Greaves.
game 2 I draw into Progenitus so can only NO for SSS but he gets the job done as there is no NO for the AI.
match EF:
as cognis (2-0): mull to 6 (what's with all the mulligans today?) I beat with two goyfs. remove his and he plays Bloodbraid Elf and cascades into Maelstrome Pulse. frown. Kitchen Finks show up and sort of trade (hehe, I just love that card) with the Bloodbraid Elf. bit low on mana. recruit a Kor Skyfisher for some card-advantage bounce action but I just keep getting pounded by creature removal and discard and cascading spells. after a couple of turns where I am certain I am dead Dragonmaster Outcast shows up and the AI is finally out of removal.
game 2 sees removal flying on both sides with nobody being in any danger until, again, the Dragonmaster shows up when the AI is out of removal. Skyfisher/Recruiter/Witness shennanigans ensue but are really pointless by now.
rematch as jatill (2-0): removal removal removal, Broodmate Dragon gets a token that manages to stick around to deal some damage. have to win with 2 Blightning in the end, though.
game 2 Bloodbraid Elf x2 rock plus lots of, you guessed it, removal.
match GH:
as disco (2-0): mull to 5 (sigh). turn 3 Tidehollow Sculler reveals the nasty. 2 Lightning Helix, Bloodbraid Elf and lands to play them. ugh. removal comes forth from the top of my deck though and I keep in the game and play Baneslayer Angerl with the AI at zero critters and cards in hand. the angel gets rfg eventually and I am staring down an angry Figure of Destiny. lifegain back and forth and we end up at 20-20 at one point but the AI thumps me as soon as it gets another red or white mana. I cast a Hymn just in case and sure enough the AI discards a Taiga.... Sculler next turn reveals a Mountain... oh, well. a couple of turns later the Ai decides that having a 8/8 flying first-striking wall might not be a bad thing against my second angel and Tombstalker. he'd rather race with it, though. fine by me. it's a race that he can't win.
game 2 early disruption paves the way for flying monsters.
rematch as yggdrasil (2-0): early Thoctar and FoD rule
game 2 Ranger of Eos refuels into two FoD. both of them take down a Baneslayer Angel with my insane combat trick of making the figure 8/8, though. mad skills. they fall to Swords, though but Bloodbraid refuels into Thoctar. Balefire Liege just adds insult to injury.
as me versus juzamjedi (2-0): mull to 6 to get more than one land. drop 2 Wall of Blossoms to stave off the AI, Control Magic a Goblin Chieftain and NO on turn 5 and NO on turn 6 for Spike Weaver just to be sure knowing that the AI has no instant direct damage (that it actually knows how to use) to take him out.
match 2 I keep an iffy hand of 2 lands plus hierarch, 2 Control Magic, Force of Will and Fact or Fiction. would really like something versus a t1 Goblin Lackey but decide against the mulligan in the end. the AI plays Aether Vial and not much else in the beginning. I control a hasty Warchief and keep punding with my exalted hierarch. Kitchen Finks show up to play some D and the AI is willing to trade his newly cast Goblin Lackey and Goblin Warchief for my stolen, exalted Warchief. fine by me. Fact or Fiction refuels into Wall of Blossoms, Kitchen Finks and another Noble Hierarch. NO shows off a Wall-draw and speeds things up.
rematch as juzamjedi (2-1): 3 Mountain, 2 Wasteland, Vial and Ringleader on the draw? meh, not good enough. mull into a slightly better hand with 2 lands, 2 warchief, vial, and Ringleader. don't really want to go to 5 cards. t3 NO ends the game.
match 2 drop a lot of lords on the table via Mountains and vial with the AI colorscrewed on green mana.
match 3 hasty piledrivers win.
match CD:
as taron (1-2): match 1 get a lot of mana critters but no business spells. lose to SSS.
game 2 NO on turn 3 which goes unanswered.
game 3 mull to 5 to get at least one mana source. AI NOs turn 3 and I do the same the next turn. AI swords my only critter in game before I can use Elvish Spirit Guide next turn to ramp up the mana for another NO. then the AI plays NO. I have answers in the form of Eureka / Platinum Angel or NO but have only 2 lands in play and no critters on the board. I die.
rematch as jatill (2-0): low on lands but Wall of Roots and Overgrown Battlement help out for NO while the AI enjoys playing with Lightning Greaves.
game 2 I draw into Progenitus so can only NO for SSS but he gets the job done as there is no NO for the AI.
match EF:
as cognis (2-0): mull to 6 (what's with all the mulligans today?) I beat with two goyfs. remove his and he plays Bloodbraid Elf and cascades into Maelstrome Pulse. frown. Kitchen Finks show up and sort of trade (hehe, I just love that card) with the Bloodbraid Elf. bit low on mana. recruit a Kor Skyfisher for some card-advantage bounce action but I just keep getting pounded by creature removal and discard and cascading spells. after a couple of turns where I am certain I am dead Dragonmaster Outcast shows up and the AI is finally out of removal.
game 2 sees removal flying on both sides with nobody being in any danger until, again, the Dragonmaster shows up when the AI is out of removal. Skyfisher/Recruiter/Witness shennanigans ensue but are really pointless by now.
rematch as jatill (2-0): removal removal removal, Broodmate Dragon gets a token that manages to stick around to deal some damage. have to win with 2 Blightning in the end, though.
game 2 Bloodbraid Elf x2 rock plus lots of, you guessed it, removal.
match GH:
as disco (2-0): mull to 5 (sigh). turn 3 Tidehollow Sculler reveals the nasty. 2 Lightning Helix, Bloodbraid Elf and lands to play them. ugh. removal comes forth from the top of my deck though and I keep in the game and play Baneslayer Angerl with the AI at zero critters and cards in hand. the angel gets rfg eventually and I am staring down an angry Figure of Destiny. lifegain back and forth and we end up at 20-20 at one point but the AI thumps me as soon as it gets another red or white mana. I cast a Hymn just in case and sure enough the AI discards a Taiga.... Sculler next turn reveals a Mountain... oh, well. a couple of turns later the Ai decides that having a 8/8 flying first-striking wall might not be a bad thing against my second angel and Tombstalker. he'd rather race with it, though. fine by me. it's a race that he can't win.
game 2 early disruption paves the way for flying monsters.
rematch as yggdrasil (2-0): early Thoctar and FoD rule
game 2 Ranger of Eos refuels into two FoD. both of them take down a Baneslayer Angel with my insane combat trick of making the figure 8/8, though. mad skills. they fall to Swords, though but Bloodbraid refuels into Thoctar. Balefire Liege just adds insult to injury.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by aww1979 » 18 Jun 2010, 05:04
Yes, there are 15 players. Juzamjedi, serbitar, salbei, scherbchen, me (x2 decks), jatill, brandon, taron, cognis, monopoman, thedrigo, discoransom, shantak, nyktorion, yggdrasil.taron wrote:How many players was it aww? 15 right?
Quite excited, first tournament with you guys, I have only unlocked like 3 cards as well and yet my deck is doing quite well.
Looking at the cards the challenge modes unlock, it's actually not too bad if you haven't unlocked very many, since a lot of them either are kind of weak or else the AI sucks with.
Mystic Enforcer - Not bad, but threshold tough to get
City of Traitors - Not very good, plus AI sucks with it
Mystic Remora - Decent, but not so much in creature-heavy metas
Quirion Dryad - Overrated, but easy to use at least
Goblin Welder - Nice, but AI probably sucks with it
Cursed Scroll - This is a pretty good mid-late game card, actually surprised nobody has tried it yet
Serum Powder - AI never uses it to mulligan
Rout - Whee... Wrath of God #5
Brain freeze - Not bad, but probably a lot better in vintage and when used by human
Goblin Charbelcher - AI uses this one, and salbei and maybe a few others already tried it
Manabond - sucks bad, only use is that weird 40+ land deck, that most people online seem to build poorly anyway, and I wouldn't trust the AI with this
Street Wraith - AI never cycles, so this doesn't help much, but it's great otherwise
Tangle Wire - Nice card, AI might be able to use it at least partially
Gemstone Mine - Good card, but with all the other lands, not really needed, and extremely hard to unlock anyway
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - Dunno if AI can use this one, but it's pretty good
Wall of Roots - mostly useless, and can be replaced by similar mana creatures
Illusions of Grandeur - mostly sucks unless you use donate, and I doubt AI would do that right
Donate - sucks without illusions, thoughtlash, etc
Tezzeret the Seeker - Dunno if AI uses this one right, but it's pretty good
Might of Alara - sucks
Sower of Temptation - Good card, and several people used this one
Umezawa's Jitte - Good several people used it even though AI won't
Bloodbraid Elf - Good card, several people used it already
Mind's Desire - banned in legacy, for good reaso n:D
Essence Sliver - sucks unless you play slivers obviously
Violent Ultimatum - costs too much to cast
Phyrexian Negator - good card, but would you trust the AI with this, lol?
Bituminous Blast - good card, especially with creature-heavy meta
Leyline of the Void - not very good, AI won't play it for free (I tried a Leyline/helm combo deck :p), mostly a sideboard card anyway
Helm of Obedience - Dunno if AI ever uses this. A decent card in human hands, though; if playing blue, though, Bribery is better
/end blah blah
Scoring update: (15 reports max possible)
AB: Scherbchen up by 4 (13 players reported, salbei and thedrigo remain)
CD: Taron up by 16 (13 players, salbei and thedrigo remain)
EF: Cognis up by 10 (12 players reported, salbei, thedrigo and discoransom remain )
GH: Yggdrasil up by 28 (11 players reported, salbei, thedrigo, discoransom, yggdrasil remain)
-AB is still too close to call
-CD cannot be won by jatill, even if both remaining players get perfect jatill scores, he still loses by 2
-EF is probably lost, but is not yet hopeless
-GH is probably lost, if all four players get perfect discoransom scores, it will be a tie
I don't think anyone else plans to report, but if you have one to send in, it needs to be in by the end of Friday. Odds are pretty good that the current leaderboard will be the semifinals. Thedrigo and salbei haven't reported at all; I think thedrigo had computer problems, and I haven't heard from salbei. Discoransom conceded, so he may have passed on testing, and I don't think yggdrasil wanted to test his own deck.
Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by taron » 18 Jun 2010, 06:31
Wewt! :3 Good matches Jatill.
I've been trying to think of a card/cards if I made it into the top 4. List is too big, even for first =<
All the cards I'm thinking of would be good for a couple of different decks. Hm.
I've been trying to think of a card/cards if I made it into the top 4. List is too big, even for first =<
All the cards I'm thinking of would be good for a couple of different decks. Hm.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by Cognis » 18 Jun 2010, 07:08
I won't be able to post results of the semis till Sunday evening (CET) since I'm off to work and I don't have an internet connection there. I'll try to test the decks so I can just post them when I come back. I'll test Schrebchen vs Taron and Cognis vs Yggdrasil because I won't be able to see who actually passed in AB and EF. I'll redo the test if something changes.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by monopoman » 18 Jun 2010, 07:21
I actually think Hallowed Burial is a stronger card then Rout. Unless you will likely be using that 7 mana version of Rout with a lot of probability Burial is better.
Also Might of Alara is actually a half way decent card if you are running a 5 color beatdown deck. Unfortunately the AI would probably fail on that deck extremely well due to its reliance on getting the right duals from fetches.
Also Might of Alara is actually a half way decent card if you are running a 5 color beatdown deck. Unfortunately the AI would probably fail on that deck extremely well due to its reliance on getting the right duals from fetches.
Last edited by monopoman on 18 Jun 2010, 12:16, edited 1 time in total.
Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by Yggdrasil » 18 Jun 2010, 10:54
Thank you Nyktorion.Nyktorion wrote:First, congratulations to Yggdrasil for winning our bracketYour midrange deck was definitely a good idea against Zoo. While I thought that Sword of Fire and Ice would give me some nice fighting chances later in the game (and indeed, I did in my test), just 2 cards devited to that were obviously by far not enough ^^
I played a little with our decks and Sword of Fire and Ice was indeed a good addition for the mid-round, too bad there's only two. I put Qasali Pridemage in my deck in prevision of Blood Moon or Moat, but it was also effective against your artifacts. Your Grim Lavamancer were in fact the best cards imho. I won thanks to them when I played your deck and they're were the most annoying threats when played by AI.
In fact, I built 4 decks for this tournament :
The first one was full of white-protected creatures (fun but weak against a non-white deck)
The second one was shroud creatures oriented (was weaker)
The third one was a BW faeries deck. Not bad but it was too slow against a fast aggro deck, so I chose Balefire. It was the good choice, your zoo would have easily win against each of the three others.
You're right, this combo is way too complicated for the AI.aww1979 wrote:Illusions of Grandeur - mostly sucks unless you use donate, and I doubt AI would do that right

I haven't play yet my match against Disco, but like the previous round I'll keep the score for myself and I'll just give my opinion to Disco.
Thank you for your comments. You guessed right, AI is unable to play Naya Charm correctly. It's nevertheless a wonderful card in this deck when it's played by a human (when a Balefire Liege is on the battlefield, you cast a bolt, regrowth it with the Naya Charm, and cast it again : 15 damages for 5 mana !Taron wrote:With your deck, you have a huge amount of room for comboing with the Quirion Dryad man. I'm hoping that Kiln Fiend gets added in the next batch of cards, will make a really good RG sligh style deck, Kiln fiend + bolt + berserk + berserk = 34 tramply damage on t3It's a beast, manages with a little luck to outrace Zoo in legacy.
Quirion Dryads should work alright with yours, given that nearly everything you play in the deck will make it bigger. And I don't think the AI would be able to see how big of a threat it is .
I would go Goblin Bushwacker over Flamekin Zealot, it's cheaper for roughly the same effect. What you really want is the +1 and haste, the toughness isn't really necessary compared to swinging with a lot of creatures before T4, if you want to take the Goldfish style scenario:
T1: Taiga, Wild Nacatl
T2: Savannah, Wild Nacatl, Wild Nacatl
T3: Plateau/Taiga, Wild Nacatl, Bushwacker Kicked = 18 damage.
Obviously that will change up a LOT pending on what is in the hand, but it's a definite preference to the flamekin zealot, which will only kick in as on t4 at the best, but by t4, they have a significantly better defence / more chances to top out removal.
Naya charm is a nice call, though I'm not sure the AI can use it right, however using it to tap out the enemy to keep you safe on their turn, and enabling you to swing out for the win during your turn will be nice. Especially with those really, really, REALLY big Thoctars after a Liege or two.
If you want, in a bit I will play your deck against a few of my own concoctions and I will see if I can find any obvious weaker cards and some suggestions.
I would love Basilisk collar to be added, and cunning sparkmage. Haste it out, collar on, deathtouching ping! Better with sharpshooter if you can keep it alive a turn ;P.

I hadn't considered using Goblin Bushwacker. It's really better than Flamekin Zealot.
Quirion Dryad wasn't bad in the deck, but like tarmo, it's a good card in mid / end game and poor in the early turns. I already had good finishers (balefire, thoctar, FoD) that's why I finally replaced it by Kor Firewalker (this guy is here just to keep me alive the first turns again a fast aggro deck

I'll did some tests with Cunning Sparkmage and the duo Basilisk Collar / Goblin Sharpshooter.
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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by Yggdrasil » 18 Jun 2010, 11:21
I like the inclusion of numerous two-spells-in-one-card : Bloodbraid Elf (cascade), Eternal Witness (regrowth), Imperial Recruiter (tutor) and Kitchen Finks (life gain + persist). Kor Skyfisher allows you really good interaction with them when played by a human, too bad AI sucks with it.Cognis wrote:btw, if anybody wants to comment about the deck go right ahead

On the other side, I'm not really enthusiastic with Wall of Reverence, Scute Mob and Dragonmaster Outcast. Your deck is clearly mid-paced aggro. This 3 cards won't help you much the early turns against a fast aggro deck, and a slower deck would have enough serious threats to crush you in the end game.
It could be interesting testing Wild Nacatl or FoD instead of those three.
Finally, the land ratio seems very good and I'm jealous of your excellent mana curve.

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Re: June Tournament (submissions closed)
by monopoman » 18 Jun 2010, 12:17
Outcast was a house in the matches I played with it the AI doesn't care about it at all even if its pumping out 5/5 dragons every turn.
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